Let loose and have fun!
Posted: 8/5/2008 7:59 PM PDT
THE IMPOSSIBILITY OF THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
Through the unconstitutional ( it isn’t in there) principal of "separation of church and state"; Christian influence is being ejected from our public institutions, schools and Gov't., and is being replaced by the humanist influence of atheism. Yet, humanism is a religion too. The humanists have admitted as much in their "humanist manifesto. Punch it up on your computer and see for yourself. It is fitting they call it a manifesto, as the communist creed is called, because they worship the same god - the mind of man.
It doesn't matter if a man calls himself an atheist, because what he considers the supreme intelligence in the universe - is his god. This is why, in the Russian atheistic experiment, you heard: "workers paradise", and "utopia"(Eden). Man's attempt to achieve heaven on earth by his ability (and yet, he created a hell on earth.) Lying Satan, in the garden said: "ye shall be as gods knowing good and evil", while God says: "There is a way that seemeth right to man, but the way thereof is the way of death". God's word is shown vindicated in this history of communist Russia. They tried it in Russia by open revolution, and openly in Germany, with an evolutionary "super race" idea and Nat'l. Socialism. Now, our brand of humanists try it in America by subterfuge and deceit. For instance: twisting the term: “Congress shall make no LAW into – “Separation of Church and State” as if it was in our constitution, when it was only in a private letter written by Jefferson. Using “gay” (which is non-descriptive of them) for the homosexual: using “woman’s right to choose” to replace abortion, ( which doesn’t describe the act of terminating the life of an innocent baby.) Calling themselves “progressive”, when socialism is anything but progressive – it’s regressive.
Every man makes his decisions based on influence of one kind or another. Should the 10 or 20% of dedicated humanists among us have the power, through court decree, to force their influence in the public arena; while the 80% that profess Christianity be forced out? We once had prayer in school; now we have guns. Our children once were protected from porn and drugs by Christian influence; but that influence was blunted by humanist university professors and indoctrinated students in the 1960s and 70s. Do you have children? Which influence do you prefer? You will have one religious influence finally prevailing. The war between religious humanism, and Christianity, Islam, or even Satanism will finally triumph. Make your choice and join the fight. One is our countries salvation; the others, it’s destruction.
If Christians in America do not expose, to the people, the fact that humanism is also a religion, we will lose the battle with them, and the future freedom and prosperity of our children and grandchildren too.
Atheism= no God above me (meaning I am a God unto myself.) The humanist god = The sovereign mind (intelligence) of man, (the militant humanist believes his is the most supreme) Their bible= The evolution of the species. Doctrine= Dialectical materialism. Religious institutions= Academia, ACLU, Gov't (primarily the Judicial branch). Prophets= Marx, Darwin, John Dewey ( he is a signee of the manifesto), Hegel, Sartre, etc.
Because of the natural laziness of the sheep in obedience to and worship of him, God has put before them a formidable foe indeed; as he did the old nation of Israel.
Lionel M.
Through the unconstitutional ( it isn’t in there) principal of "separation of church and state"; Christian influence is being ejected from our public institutions, schools and Gov't., and is being replaced by the humanist influence of atheism. Yet, humanism is a religion too. The humanists have admitted as much in their "humanist manifesto. Punch it up on your computer and see for yourself. It is fitting they call it a manifesto, as the communist creed is called, because they worship the same god - the mind of man.
It doesn't matter if a man calls himself an atheist, because what he considers the supreme intelligence in the universe - is his god. This is why, in the Russian atheistic experiment, you heard: "workers paradise", and "utopia"(Eden). Man's attempt to achieve heaven on earth by his ability (and yet, he created a hell on earth.) Lying Satan, in the garden said: "ye shall be as gods knowing good and evil", while God says: "There is a way that seemeth right to man, but the way thereof is the way of death". God's word is shown vindicated in this history of communist Russia. They tried it in Russia by open revolution, and openly in Germany, with an evolutionary "super race" idea and Nat'l. Socialism. Now, our brand of humanists try it in America by subterfuge and deceit. For instance: twisting the term: “Congress shall make no LAW into – “Separation of Church and State” as if it was in our constitution, when it was only in a private letter written by Jefferson. Using “gay” (which is non-descriptive of them) for the homosexual: using “woman’s right to choose” to replace abortion, ( which doesn’t describe the act of terminating the life of an innocent baby.) Calling themselves “progressive”, when socialism is anything but progressive – it’s regressive.
Every man makes his decisions based on influence of one kind or another. Should the 10 or 20% of dedicated humanists among us have the power, through court decree, to force their influence in the public arena; while the 80% that profess Christianity be forced out? We once had prayer in school; now we have guns. Our children once were protected from porn and drugs by Christian influence; but that influence was blunted by humanist university professors and indoctrinated students in the 1960s and 70s. Do you have children? Which influence do you prefer? You will have one religious influence finally prevailing. The war between religious humanism, and Christianity, Islam, or even Satanism will finally triumph. Make your choice and join the fight. One is our countries salvation; the others, it’s destruction.
If Christians in America do not expose, to the people, the fact that humanism is also a religion, we will lose the battle with them, and the future freedom and prosperity of our children and grandchildren too.
Atheism= no God above me (meaning I am a God unto myself.) The humanist god = The sovereign mind (intelligence) of man, (the militant humanist believes his is the most supreme) Their bible= The evolution of the species. Doctrine= Dialectical materialism. Religious institutions= Academia, ACLU, Gov't (primarily the Judicial branch). Prophets= Marx, Darwin, John Dewey ( he is a signee of the manifesto), Hegel, Sartre, etc.
Because of the natural laziness of the sheep in obedience to and worship of him, God has put before them a formidable foe indeed; as he did the old nation of Israel.
Lionel M.
Posted: 8/5/2008 8:01 PM PDT
You just brought up two of my most unfavorite topics: religion and politics...blech. NEXT!
Posted: 8/5/2008 8:03 PM PDT
I am wholly, completely and teddy-bear-fuzzily OKAY with Academia taking the place of religious institutions.
Posted: 8/5/2008 8:07 PM PDT
why, Why, WHY is it okay for the zealots to do this? If I was to stand out on the corner and scream GOD IS NO MORE REAL THAN SANTA CLAUS! I would probably get arrested? Take that palm sized gideon bible and cram it up your ass!
*smooths shirt, sips cocktail*
Sorry...those damn super christy types get my gander up.
*smooths shirt, sips cocktail*
Sorry...those damn super christy types get my gander up.
Posted: 8/5/2008 8:09 PM PDT
meh...it's like so much vaguely annoying wallpaper now.
Posted: 8/5/2008 8:11 PM PDT
It be that way for me if I didn't live in the bible belt. Religion is a business over here. I reach my quota of tolerance really quickly when it comes to our lord and savior Jesus Christ.
Posted: 8/5/2008 8:20 PM PDT
LMAO...I imagined that last line as something you automatically ramble off just to get them off your back.
It could be worse: you could have to say 10 hail marys and be told not to touch yourself for another 30 days.
It could be worse: you could have to say 10 hail marys and be told not to touch yourself for another 30 days.
Posted: 8/5/2008 8:26 PM PDT
Ten Hail Mary's are nothing, but no having a wank for 30 days? Dear god, no!
Posted: 8/5/2008 8:32 PM PDT
Aw, wank. I wish Americans had colorful expressions for jerking off.
Posted: 8/5/2008 10:21 PM PDT
there is no such thing as seperation of church and state.
Posted: 8/5/2008 10:45 PM PDT
if wank is all you brits have, you are sourly behind. Let's not forget that America is home black people (real black people, not British black people) and many other manufacturers of slang.
Wackin it
Jerkin it
spankin the monkey
chokin your chicken
wrestling the one eyed spit monster
and the list goes on forever...
Wackin it
Jerkin it
spankin the monkey
chokin your chicken
wrestling the one eyed spit monster
and the list goes on forever...
Posted: 8/5/2008 11:12 PM PDT
"one eyed spit monster"? LOL
I prefer one eyed TROUSER SNAKE, a la Monty Python, thank you very much. Did you ever hear The Penis Song? Samn that's funny shit.
I prefer one eyed TROUSER SNAKE, a la Monty Python, thank you very much. Did you ever hear The Penis Song? Samn that's funny shit.
Posted: 8/5/2008 11:15 PM PDT
NERD ALERT! hehe. You can't enjoy Monty Python and not be a nerd (which is a fine thing to be)... but anyway, no I don't think I've ever heard the Penis Song.
Posted: 8/5/2008 11:44 PM PDT
...who did you call a brit?
Posted: 8/5/2008 11:45 PM PDT
aw, fuck. This is why I wish I could edit posts. Because I don't know that anowok is british.
Posted: 8/6/2008 9:45 AM PDT
uh, I'm not British. I live in New Jersey. That's about as far from being British as I can get without growing gills.
Posted: 8/6/2008 9:57 AM PDT
LOL...this one is funny...No one know's who's british who's from New Zeland and who's from America. Anyone from Japan so we can make this more confusing?
Also WTF is up with senior atheists are taking over our schools? Seperation of Church and state was an amazing idea but we've never been able to execute it until now. As a mother I don't want prayer shoved down my child's throat or any other child's throat that may not be Christian. It's wrong to confuse them even more than society confuses them now. Let them decide for themselves if they want to follow "the one God" or if they want to dance naked under the mood worshiping the godess Diana, it's their own choice not the schools.
Also WTF is up with senior atheists are taking over our schools? Seperation of Church and state was an amazing idea but we've never been able to execute it until now. As a mother I don't want prayer shoved down my child's throat or any other child's throat that may not be Christian. It's wrong to confuse them even more than society confuses them now. Let them decide for themselves if they want to follow "the one God" or if they want to dance naked under the mood worshiping the godess Diana, it's their own choice not the schools.
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:01 AM PDT
What the hell?
I'm British.
;D
I'm British.
;D
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:10 AM PDT
Can I be Irish? I always thought it might be fun...
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:11 AM PDT
I'm quarter Irish, quarter English, and half Mad.
;D
Okay so I lied. I'm three quarters English....
;D
;D
Okay so I lied. I'm three quarters English....
;D
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:23 AM PDT
liljinx Posted: 8/6/2008 09:57 AM PT
"Ignore LOL...this one is funny...No one know's who's british who's from New Zeland and who's from America. Anyone from Japan so we can make this more confusing?
Also WTF is up with senior atheists are taking over our schools? Seperation of Church and state was an amazing idea but we've never been able to execute it until now. As a mother I don't want prayer shoved down my child's throat or any other child's throat that may not be Christian. It's wrong to confuse them even more than society confuses them now. Let them decide for themselves if they want to follow "the one God" or if they want to dance naked under the mood worshiping the godess Diana, it's their own choice not the schools."
I am personally neutral on the subject, but what about the kids on the other side of the spectrum. It seems to me that Christian parents would rebuke you for banning prayer just as much as you rebuke them for wanting prayer. I like to research a lot of topics that have extremist ideas on both sides. Only by weeding out what is extreme on either side can you really find the truth. I think that a balance must be reached before the extremists rip the world to pieces trying to please themselves. Find a middle-ground to agree upon and everyone will be much better off...
Dark
"Ignore LOL...this one is funny...No one know's who's british who's from New Zeland and who's from America. Anyone from Japan so we can make this more confusing?
Also WTF is up with senior atheists are taking over our schools? Seperation of Church and state was an amazing idea but we've never been able to execute it until now. As a mother I don't want prayer shoved down my child's throat or any other child's throat that may not be Christian. It's wrong to confuse them even more than society confuses them now. Let them decide for themselves if they want to follow "the one God" or if they want to dance naked under the mood worshiping the godess Diana, it's their own choice not the schools."
I am personally neutral on the subject, but what about the kids on the other side of the spectrum. It seems to me that Christian parents would rebuke you for banning prayer just as much as you rebuke them for wanting prayer. I like to research a lot of topics that have extremist ideas on both sides. Only by weeding out what is extreme on either side can you really find the truth. I think that a balance must be reached before the extremists rip the world to pieces trying to please themselves. Find a middle-ground to agree upon and everyone will be much better off...
Dark
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:56 AM PDT
I see what your saying, but I don't see it as extream that people are finally aware that it's rude to force a prayer down anyones throat. Middle ground would either be no one does it in schools and you teach it at home and church which I think is wise or that you teach children about all different religions and every day of the week pray to a different god, which I believe Christians would again have a fit over.
I agree that extreamism isn't the way to go about things, but in this particular case praying to God in our public schools where Musliums, Buddhists, Wiccans, and Atheists send their children is not a middle ground, it is rather a far swing. If it were something of teaching religion in schools I'd be a little more in support of that as long as they were going at it from an Acedemic stand point and it was a good overview of many different religions. This is a representation of one religion of many within our schools which is a message to our children that one religion is better than another.
I agree that extreamism isn't the way to go about things, but in this particular case praying to God in our public schools where Musliums, Buddhists, Wiccans, and Atheists send their children is not a middle ground, it is rather a far swing. If it were something of teaching religion in schools I'd be a little more in support of that as long as they were going at it from an Acedemic stand point and it was a good overview of many different religions. This is a representation of one religion of many within our schools which is a message to our children that one religion is better than another.
Posted: 8/6/2008 10:58 AM PDT
If you want children to have to say Christian prayers in public schools, you also have to concede having children says Scientologist prayers...or whatever those people do. Meditate, levitate, defenestrate.
Posted: 8/6/2008 11:07 AM PDT
LOL...I think they worship the alien lifeforce Zenu.
Posted: 8/6/2008 11:08 AM PDT
I think that worship should be wholely replaced by the study of religion. I think it is important for children to understand the belief systems of others around them, teach them Bible stories as 'this is the basis of Christian religion', not as 'and this is what happened', that way the Christian children continue believeing, and the non-Christian children see this as the religion of their peers and understand it. The shame should go for all world religions so that generations come out of education with a full knowledge of the beliefs and practices of as many faith groups as possible. I think it is absolutely ridiculous that they are currently trying to fade Religious Education out of English schools, whilst Church and Catholic schools remain - not teaching R.E but praying in assemblies. It's horrible. I loved R.E, and would never identify myself as a religious person, I just really enjoyed learning about what other people believed and why, I've read the Bible, I've read the Koran, and I've studied many different Eastern and Western religious persuasions.
Posted: 8/6/2008 11:18 AM PDT
I agree. Religious Education is a completely different topic, preaching sermons at our children and forcing one religion that isn't their own is wrong. I don't like it when people do it to me here on the forums, why should I want my child to experience it? I would however, have no problem if she were learning about different religions as a class, as long as it wasn't being taught by someone who was saying every five seconds that one belief is better than another.
I have tolerance for all religions that are peaceful and don't hurt people. I even give Scientology it's right to worship an alien as long as they aren't hurting anyone. Just don't force it upon me in my place of employment or my educational facilities.
I have tolerance for all religions that are peaceful and don't hurt people. I even give Scientology it's right to worship an alien as long as they aren't hurting anyone. Just don't force it upon me in my place of employment or my educational facilities.
Posted: 8/6/2008 11:23 AM PDT
My point exactly! And I'm sure you're daughter would benefit, as a social being, in knowing more about who believes what, it's important for all of us and encourages tolerance, so many conflicts surrounding religious subjects are born out of a lack of simple understanding and tolerance. I really wanted to be an R.E teacher and now I can't because they're scrapping it as a subject. In times when children are growing up not knowing the difference between 'Muslim' and 'Terrorist' because of the media that surrounds them shouldn't now be the time when efforts are made to educate our children in the true beliefs of others? Britain is gearing itself up for a very unpleasant society, as communities become more multi-racial (and therefore more religious groups living side by side) with children who are bought up only knowing that people of other religions are 'different' and never knowing why.
Posted: 8/6/2008 11:27 AM PDT
Anybody who says humanism is a religion has completely missed the point. So, this thread fails from the very first post.
Posted: 8/6/2008 11:29 AM PDT
I don't think that religion should be forced on anyone. ESPECIALLY children. I think you should be allowed to make the decision for yourself when you are old enough. I myself am an atheist, but if my children were to express an interest in any religion I would welcome it and even accompany them to a church, mosque, temple whatever. I don't think the government has any right to step in and teach my kids anything about religion.
Posted: 8/6/2008 11:34 AM PDT
So if your childrens whole class were taught "what happens in a mosque" for example, by somebody who wasn't necessarily a Muslim themself, but just by way of educating the 30 or so children before them, you would feel uncomfortable with that?
Posted: 8/6/2008 11:36 AM PDT
There's a huge, huge difference between the academic study of religion and religious instruction. One examines the artifacts of religion in cultural and historical context. The other just plain expects you to *believe in it.* They're very, very different things.
Posted: 8/6/2008 11:38 AM PDT
I'm with you Inkwell. I'm allowing my daughter to choose for herself. While I'm not an atheist I'm also not into organized religions as a whole. I don't want to cram my spirital belief down my daughter's throat either as i came to my beliefs through study and how I just general feel on the topic, which is how I want her to decide. Once she expresses an interest i'll be more than happy to explain a few things and if I don't have educated answers on her questions we'll find them together.
Posted: 8/6/2008 11:39 AM PDT
I agree with Gorzek that's knowledge not religion. The form of 'education' they want to impose involves prayer and bible hour in school. I don't agree with that. Teaching children about the differences of races and religion would teach them tolerance. Teaching them a religious exclusivity does not. It just adds another layer of hatred as far as I'm concerned.
Posted: 8/6/2008 11:44 AM PDT
Ahh yeah I misunderstood what you were saying Inkwell, i agree with you, what i am annoyed at is that the British Government want to scrap Religious Studies from the curriculum in English schools. That is the academic study of religion, not the practice of religion. Usually it's only specified 'Chuch Schools' that practice prayer or Bible reading, and it's up to parents whether they choose to send their children there or not. All other schools teach Religious Education, teaching children about world religions, including Christianity, but not in a church attendence sort of way, the kids learn about the origins of the Christian religion, how the beliefs have changed through history, the differences between denominations of Christian religion and so on, as well as Hinduism, Islam, Judaism etc. etc. It is this that I think should NOT be extinguished from our school.
Posted: 8/6/2008 11:50 AM PDT
That's very true, Ashleigh. A lot of people don't realize that European history post-Rome IS the story of Christianity. It's almost impossible to understand 500AD-2000AD without having a good grasp of Christianity, its origins, its evolution, and its influence.
And yet, schools are eager to shy away from anything religious, for fear of offending people who don't understand what is being taught and why.
And yet, schools are eager to shy away from anything religious, for fear of offending people who don't understand what is being taught and why.
Posted: 8/6/2008 11:52 AM PDT
Exactly Gorzek! And that really annoys me! My boyfriend teaches science at a non religious High School and their Religious Education teachers are now being utilised to teach 'Citizenship' (how to be a nice person) instead. W.T.F?
Posted: 8/6/2008 11:55 AM PDT
Citizenship? That's just a backdoor way of teaching morality. Also not the schools place.
Posted: 8/6/2008 11:57 AM PDT
On/Off topic here.
I decided to take a mythology class, because while I've enjoyed it all my life and know alot about the subject I always feel I can learn more.
So, I'm sitting in the class fiddling with my books trying to figure out if I'm really too old to be here and how the hell to operate the tiny little armrest desk without making too much noise, and the teacher begins her introductory speach to us
"Hello class," She says walking back and forth on the stage with her 80's black and white checkered tennis shoes. I just want to let you know that we'll be researching ALL Mythology in this class."
She begins telling a story without using names (Basically it's the story of the Virgin Birth from the Bible)
Then she asks, "Which mythology is this from?"
Many people raise their hands and someone says "Egyptian."
The teacher says, "Very good there is a story in Egyptian Mythos that is very similar."
And I'm keeping my mouth shut cause I want to just let it happen, cause I can feel it building in the room. That tension that comes as people begin to think they know what someone's going to say and they know there's gonna be fall out.
"Anyone? Anyone?" The teacher asks smiling and pacing.
And one brave soul in the back raises her tiny hand. And I hope she gets it right, she's so adorably highschool with her Hanah Montana shirt and dangly earrings. The teacher points to the cuttie in the back.
"Um..the Bible." She says.
"That's right!" The teacher cheers. "The Bible."
You can almost hear the crickets and I can't help but smile, cause I know I'm going to love this class.
"We'll be studying the Bible in this class as it is a great source of some of our most amazing myths. If you don't like this you should probably leave my class right now."
And they do. After all was said and done of the full house we had in the auditorum that seats 53 we had 15 when she was done. And to some degree I was sadened to find out how small minded people can be.
I decided to take a mythology class, because while I've enjoyed it all my life and know alot about the subject I always feel I can learn more.
So, I'm sitting in the class fiddling with my books trying to figure out if I'm really too old to be here and how the hell to operate the tiny little armrest desk without making too much noise, and the teacher begins her introductory speach to us
"Hello class," She says walking back and forth on the stage with her 80's black and white checkered tennis shoes. I just want to let you know that we'll be researching ALL Mythology in this class."
She begins telling a story without using names (Basically it's the story of the Virgin Birth from the Bible)
Then she asks, "Which mythology is this from?"
Many people raise their hands and someone says "Egyptian."
The teacher says, "Very good there is a story in Egyptian Mythos that is very similar."
And I'm keeping my mouth shut cause I want to just let it happen, cause I can feel it building in the room. That tension that comes as people begin to think they know what someone's going to say and they know there's gonna be fall out.
"Anyone? Anyone?" The teacher asks smiling and pacing.
And one brave soul in the back raises her tiny hand. And I hope she gets it right, she's so adorably highschool with her Hanah Montana shirt and dangly earrings. The teacher points to the cuttie in the back.
"Um..the Bible." She says.
"That's right!" The teacher cheers. "The Bible."
You can almost hear the crickets and I can't help but smile, cause I know I'm going to love this class.
"We'll be studying the Bible in this class as it is a great source of some of our most amazing myths. If you don't like this you should probably leave my class right now."
And they do. After all was said and done of the full house we had in the auditorum that seats 53 we had 15 when she was done. And to some degree I was sadened to find out how small minded people can be.
Posted: 8/6/2008 12:02 PM PDT
That story's really made me smile Liljinx haha.
As for Citizenship Inkwell, your right, it's not the teachers place. They have a university education in the study of world religions and they're being told they've got to teach kids 'what it's bad to be a bully', because if they teach them the difference between Catholics and Protestants - they'll offend someone. Its ridiculous.
As for Citizenship Inkwell, your right, it's not the teachers place. They have a university education in the study of world religions and they're being told they've got to teach kids 'what it's bad to be a bully', because if they teach them the difference between Catholics and Protestants - they'll offend someone. Its ridiculous.
Posted: 8/6/2008 12:06 PM PDT
To be fair, I'm sure nobody likes being told that something they believe in--a core part of their being--is a "myth."
Posted: 8/6/2008 12:09 PM PDT
I'm sure they don't but to be honest only a small percentage of the Christian population take the symbolic stories of the Bible to be true. The birth of Jesus Christ is a bit different I'll agree there, that is a core belief for the Christian people, but many accept that the tales of the Old Testament didn't actually HAPPEN. I admit to being a little bit scared of the hardcore Christians that hold Noah's Ark as fact!
Posted: 8/6/2008 12:18 PM PDT
Maybe in the UK they're a "small minority," but in the US, OT literalism is very widespread and accepted. I mean, hell, we have lawsuits and school board infighting about whether "Intelligent Design" should be taught as an "alternative" to evolution.
Posted: 8/6/2008 12:32 PM PDT
Gorzek's right. I even have a few in my family.
Posted: 8/6/2008 12:34 PM PDT
You're lucky to only have a few. I was raised catholic. Need I say more?
Posted: 8/6/2008 12:35 PM PDT
What? Really? Sometimes I just want to wrap myself in a Union Jack and drink tea :)
Posted: 8/6/2008 12:36 PM PDT
But just because your family are catholic doesnt mean they all believe Noah's ark is a true story word for word.....
Posted: 8/6/2008 12:37 PM PDT
Oh, I know why they left, Gorzek. I live in the bible belt. You can't say that Adam and Eve are fictional characters without risking your windows. I thought she was rather brave for teaching the subject as she saw fit. However, if you're going to teach Mythology which deals with religions throughout time you should teach Christian Myth.
Posted: 8/6/2008 12:41 PM PDT
Me too. Liljinx, and to Ashleigh, yes it does. And they believe in all that superstitious crap about saints too.
Posted: 8/6/2008 12:43 PM PDT
Ooh. Thats actually quite interesting. The UK better brace itself, that'll be something else we adopt as we slowly evolve into a tiny america...
Posted: 8/6/2008 3:44 PM PDT
I'm ALL for Religious Studies being taught in schools. As long as it's spread over the spectrum of religions, and not just one.
Posted: 8/6/2008 3:44 PM PDT
I'm ALL for Religious Studies being taught in schools. As long as it's spread over the spectrum of religions, and not just one.
Posted: 8/6/2008 4:05 PM PDT
*zziipp* muflachlerasyarolfresaro (that's me trying to keep my mouth shut)
Posted: 8/6/2008 5:57 PM PDT
Navar! This place is not for keeping your opinions to ones self. Express yourself sir. Besides I usually like to hear what you have to say.
Posted: 8/6/2008 6:00 PM PDT
Wow, I missed this bit earlier:
"Using “gay” (which is non-descriptive of them) for the homosexual: using “woman’s right to choose” to replace abortion, ( which doesn’t describe the act of terminating the life of an innocent baby.)"
What a douchebag.
"Using “gay” (which is non-descriptive of them) for the homosexual: using “woman’s right to choose” to replace abortion, ( which doesn’t describe the act of terminating the life of an innocent baby.)"
What a douchebag.
Posted: 8/10/2008 6:14 AM PDT
Please don't confuse atheism and humanism, and do not spout things that are untrue: "Atheism= no God above me (meaning I am a God unto myself.)" - Wrong!
And also, I think prayer AND guns existed in schools at the same time.
And also, I think prayer AND guns existed in schools at the same time.
Posted: 8/10/2008 8:44 AM PDT
Believers don't get to define atheism.
I am an atheist and I know that I exist. So how can I think that I am God if I believe God is a myth?
Teaching children about religion makes them more suseptible to those who would force it on them,not less.
Religion is intolerant of anything that sees it's evil.
A man can stand next to his son and tells me that I'm going to hell. But if I respond by saying "God is a myth, and there is no Hell." I can get arrested for encroaching on the ideals he is trying to teach that child. Nothing is said about the value or immorality of telling me I'm going to hell in front of this poor boy, just that I crossed a line! TOTAL BULLSHIT!!!
I am an atheist and I know that I exist. So how can I think that I am God if I believe God is a myth?
Teaching children about religion makes them more suseptible to those who would force it on them,not less.
Religion is intolerant of anything that sees it's evil.
A man can stand next to his son and tells me that I'm going to hell. But if I respond by saying "God is a myth, and there is no Hell." I can get arrested for encroaching on the ideals he is trying to teach that child. Nothing is said about the value or immorality of telling me I'm going to hell in front of this poor boy, just that I crossed a line! TOTAL BULLSHIT!!!
Posted: 8/10/2008 9:04 AM PDT
Breathe..............................................................................*deeply inhales
Sorry that was a little overboard, but I hate talking about religion on sundays.
Sorry that was a little overboard, but I hate talking about religion on sundays.
Posted: 8/13/2008 5:05 PM PDT
YOUR ABSOLUTLEY RIGHT!
Posted: 8/13/2008 5:05 PM PDT
YOUR ABSOLUTLEY RIGHT!
Posted: 8/13/2008 5:05 PM PDT
YOUR ABSOLUTLEY RIGHT!
Posted: 8/13/2008 5:07 PM PDT
gorzek wrote the following post at 8/6/2008 12:06 PM PT
To be fair, I'm sure nobody likes being told that something they believe in--a core part of their being--is a "myth."
YOUR ABSOLUTLEY RIGHT!
Posted: 8/14/2008 5:20 PM PDT
Everyone. Thats the nature of the universe. We just need to keep our "absolutely" rights carefully away from other peoples ... thats what causes the problems!
Posted: 8/14/2008 5:30 PM PDT
Nope, whizzed past me in the outside lane. It was doing about 120 ... and i had slowed down! Sorry!
Posted: 8/14/2008 6:18 PM PDT
I just noticed liljinx said she likes it when I have something to say. WOOT!!WOOT!!(for me anyway)
Posted: 8/14/2008 11:06 PM PDT
Punch up " Humanist manifesto " on your browser and you will be aquanted with the people in this country who have been trying to turn this country into a socialist country ( like Germany was under Hitler, and Russia was under Lenin) for a long time. It's not without reason that they called it a " manifesto " .
Posted: 8/15/2008 12:07 AM PDT
Anyone can write a conspiracy theory dumbass, if you reread your first post you'll see another one. And you're it's author.
Posted: 8/15/2008 12:26 AM PDT
I want label you a hypocrite, but I believe, if she had taught it NOT as a myth, you would have been out of there like a gun shot.
Anyway, Christ taught: "Love your enemies, pray for them who hate you, do good to them who spitefully use you. And then,
he showed by example, from the cross: "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do." Remarkable, huh? Never a man spake like this man. To clothe Adam and Eve's nakedness (sin); blood was spilled. Cain came to God with a bloodless offering (rejected) Abel came with a blood sacrifice (accepted). In Egypt; "when I see the blood, I'll pass over you."
Read some of my poems, if you dare. Especially - With good purpose.
God bless you, I pray.
Lionel
Anyway, Christ taught: "Love your enemies, pray for them who hate you, do good to them who spitefully use you. And then,
he showed by example, from the cross: "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do." Remarkable, huh? Never a man spake like this man. To clothe Adam and Eve's nakedness (sin); blood was spilled. Cain came to God with a bloodless offering (rejected) Abel came with a blood sacrifice (accepted). In Egypt; "when I see the blood, I'll pass over you."
Read some of my poems, if you dare. Especially - With good purpose.
God bless you, I pray.
Lionel
Posted: 8/15/2008 12:55 AM PDT
Lionel: I do not hate you. But your use of religious text makes you sound mentally crippled, like you are incapable of forming thoughts of your own, without it. That is the evil of religion.
Try not to define people you do not know, I have some things you might wanna read too. They'll give you some insight into who you're trying to define.
Try not to define people you do not know, I have some things you might wanna read too. They'll give you some insight into who you're trying to define.
Posted: 8/15/2008 1:24 AM PDT
welcome back crow. how you been?
on topic, i dont agree with many things in the bible paticularly the *you are born in sin* part, just wanted to point that out.
ps, im atheistic.
on topic, i dont agree with many things in the bible paticularly the *you are born in sin* part, just wanted to point that out.
ps, im atheistic.
Posted: 8/15/2008 2:11 AM PDT
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.
Wow I have learned some turley interesting things ont his thread.
Atheist are hypocrites(supposedly) and I am a nerd(Monty Pyton is awesome!<lol>)
Well speaking as a true blue agnostic, It is ridiculous to say that atheism is equal to humanism.
It is a difference religious and scientific principles
Oil and water my friend.
Atheism is the belief that there is no god.
Humanism is the belief that man knows the difference between right and wrong.
They are close theory's but many shades of grey seperate them and you have ben using them out of context.
Sort of blended them into one ideal.
The lord of the flies theory has not be proven.
Conversely many studies have shown humans have a disposition to good not evil.
We innately create our own taboos and set our laws.
Many tribes who have not been tainted by modern growth have been found with these very same taboo's set in stone.
This side of the post is what is interesting me, for even now it is becoming a bigger issue.
Polygamy, Young Pregnancies, Surrogacy.
These are all old idea's that are conflicting with the new age.
Can you call them good or evil?
They are tradition... and that is all I have found in my experiacnes with organized religion.
Unadaptable principles and dusty traditions.
But I might be going too far into this.
You have no right to force your arguable ideals upon us.
This is a disscussion room and from the start you made it an arguement, where one must choose a side.
This is counter productive, mabye you should work on your intro a bit.
I might have listened to your words a bit more openly if I hadn't been slighted from the second I laid my eyes on your post
Wow I have learned some turley interesting things ont his thread.
Atheist are hypocrites(supposedly) and I am a nerd(Monty Pyton is awesome!<lol>)
Well speaking as a true blue agnostic, It is ridiculous to say that atheism is equal to humanism.
It is a difference religious and scientific principles
Oil and water my friend.
Atheism is the belief that there is no god.
Humanism is the belief that man knows the difference between right and wrong.
They are close theory's but many shades of grey seperate them and you have ben using them out of context.
Sort of blended them into one ideal.
The lord of the flies theory has not be proven.
Conversely many studies have shown humans have a disposition to good not evil.
We innately create our own taboos and set our laws.
Many tribes who have not been tainted by modern growth have been found with these very same taboo's set in stone.
This side of the post is what is interesting me, for even now it is becoming a bigger issue.
Polygamy, Young Pregnancies, Surrogacy.
These are all old idea's that are conflicting with the new age.
Can you call them good or evil?
They are tradition... and that is all I have found in my experiacnes with organized religion.
Unadaptable principles and dusty traditions.
But I might be going too far into this.
You have no right to force your arguable ideals upon us.
This is a disscussion room and from the start you made it an arguement, where one must choose a side.
This is counter productive, mabye you should work on your intro a bit.
I might have listened to your words a bit more openly if I hadn't been slighted from the second I laid my eyes on your post
Posted: 8/15/2008 8:25 AM PDT
It isn't a theory. Did you go to " Humanist Manifesto " on your browser? Have you read the Constitution? What did you not understand about calling homosexuals "gay" - and murder " a woman's RIGHT to choose?
Name calling shows a weakness in your argument that YOU see.
Name calling shows a weakness in your argument that YOU see.
Posted: 8/15/2008 8:53 AM PDT
Well, Vlad, history proves you wrong. The communist had the, "man is basically good doctrine", and in practice they were the baddist of the bad. They showed in practice, ( you know---"there is no god but Caesar, etc) who they thought was a supreme being. They were going to give us a "utopia", a workers "paradise" - take us back to Eden, so to speak. They gave us hell.
Fallen man is basically bad, and religious influence, and the grace of God, is the only thing that will forestall that hell. You need to thank God that our founding fathers went another direction: "let nothing be said about faith in man, but bind them down with the chains of a constitution" and " they are endowed by their creator with these enalienable rights - life, liberty and the persuit of happiness.
Read my poem: SELFRIGHTEOUSNESS, if you dare.
May God show kindness to you, I pray.
Lionel
Fallen man is basically bad, and religious influence, and the grace of God, is the only thing that will forestall that hell. You need to thank God that our founding fathers went another direction: "let nothing be said about faith in man, but bind them down with the chains of a constitution" and " they are endowed by their creator with these enalienable rights - life, liberty and the persuit of happiness.
Read my poem: SELFRIGHTEOUSNESS, if you dare.
May God show kindness to you, I pray.
Lionel
Posted: 8/15/2008 9:04 AM PDT
Many of the founding fathers weren't Christian. They were Deists.
And just b/c you read something called the Humanist Manifesto doesn't make it the definitive, exclusive, first, last and only work on Humanism. That'd be like me writing two pages about PostModernism and saying, "Read it. It's all you need to know."
Xander: "That's insane troll logic."
That shit's from MY bible. Booyah.
And just b/c you read something called the Humanist Manifesto doesn't make it the definitive, exclusive, first, last and only work on Humanism. That'd be like me writing two pages about PostModernism and saying, "Read it. It's all you need to know."
Xander: "That's insane troll logic."
That shit's from MY bible. Booyah.
Posted: 8/15/2008 9:09 AM PDT
Dear Crow,
I think I've read some of your posts. In all humility I can say: I am mentally crippled anytime I don't take God's word into account in anything I say or do - which, sadly, is probably most of the time.
Crow, we don't form thoughts on our own (like in a vacumn), but are influenced in all of them through our senses, expearances,and God given ability to reason of them.
God bless you.
Lionel
I think I've read some of your posts. In all humility I can say: I am mentally crippled anytime I don't take God's word into account in anything I say or do - which, sadly, is probably most of the time.
Crow, we don't form thoughts on our own (like in a vacumn), but are influenced in all of them through our senses, expearances,and God given ability to reason of them.
God bless you.
Lionel
Posted: 8/15/2008 9:11 AM PDT
What? 'God' said something? I must have missed that.
OHHH!!! You're talking about that brilliant book of mythology written by schizophrenics who said they talked to 'God'! You've really got to branch outin your literary consumption.
OHHH!!! You're talking about that brilliant book of mythology written by schizophrenics who said they talked to 'God'! You've really got to branch outin your literary consumption.
Posted: 8/15/2008 9:11 AM PDT
What? 'God' said something? I must have missed that.
OHHH!!! You're talking about that brilliant book of mythology written by schizophrenics who said they talked to 'God'! You've really got to branch outin your literary consumption.
OHHH!!! You're talking about that brilliant book of mythology written by schizophrenics who said they talked to 'God'! You've really got to branch outin your literary consumption.
Posted: 8/15/2008 9:20 AM PDT
Don't let her fool you, Lionel. She thinks and talks to God all the time. Go ask her neighbors.
"Oh god...oh god, oh god right there, YES, GOD, FUCK ME...SHOW ME THY ROD AND STAFF... OHHHHHHHhhhhhh....oh god..."
"Oh god...oh god, oh god right there, YES, GOD, FUCK ME...SHOW ME THY ROD AND STAFF... OHHHHHHHhhhhhh....oh god..."
Posted: 8/15/2008 9:23 AM PDT
<sighs>
Religious debate is nothing winnable ever. Belief is just that. I believe there is a God, I don't believe there is a God, I believe that there is a Badger in the sky with huge Balls that throws lightning bolts through his penis. It doesn't matter, it isn't something you can win but you can debate it all day long because humans have this uncanny thing called imagination.
My issue with Religion is this and only this. MAN.
Man by nature seeks power and/or control. Man wrote the bible (not disputable, don't even try), Man selected the books that would be put into the bible and left a few out during the editing process (again a proven historic fact as other texts have been found and simply archived). Therefore, if God does exist somewhere between him and a man putting it on paper the translation may have been lost completely. Not to mention in translation from the original language to another language again, man had his hand in this and hey whats to say he really didn't like the original translation lets change a few words around here or there. Happens all the time with other books. So now you have this thing that you're basing an entire religion around that has been morphed to be what man wants it to be not God.
Not to mention when you pull stories from the bible or rituals that are followed many of these stories and/or rituals were simply inducted into the Christian religions from the older religions. Why? Well how are you going to convert people who have been worshiping one way for centuries? Especially, if it's completely foreign concepts. That's easy, you're going to tell them, well you aren't going to loose all your holidays and feasts and rituals. It's easier for Man to wrap his mind around a concept they know then a totally new concept they don't.
So believe whatever the hell you want to believe. If you want to believe that an all loving God and Jesus are going to send you directly to HELL because you have sex outside of marriage or happen to like sex you go right ahead. If you want to belive that being gay will get you sent to hell because God only loves some of his children and not all of them, you go right ahead. But I'm thinking WTF.
Religious debate is nothing winnable ever. Belief is just that. I believe there is a God, I don't believe there is a God, I believe that there is a Badger in the sky with huge Balls that throws lightning bolts through his penis. It doesn't matter, it isn't something you can win but you can debate it all day long because humans have this uncanny thing called imagination.
My issue with Religion is this and only this. MAN.
Man by nature seeks power and/or control. Man wrote the bible (not disputable, don't even try), Man selected the books that would be put into the bible and left a few out during the editing process (again a proven historic fact as other texts have been found and simply archived). Therefore, if God does exist somewhere between him and a man putting it on paper the translation may have been lost completely. Not to mention in translation from the original language to another language again, man had his hand in this and hey whats to say he really didn't like the original translation lets change a few words around here or there. Happens all the time with other books. So now you have this thing that you're basing an entire religion around that has been morphed to be what man wants it to be not God.
Not to mention when you pull stories from the bible or rituals that are followed many of these stories and/or rituals were simply inducted into the Christian religions from the older religions. Why? Well how are you going to convert people who have been worshiping one way for centuries? Especially, if it's completely foreign concepts. That's easy, you're going to tell them, well you aren't going to loose all your holidays and feasts and rituals. It's easier for Man to wrap his mind around a concept they know then a totally new concept they don't.
So believe whatever the hell you want to believe. If you want to believe that an all loving God and Jesus are going to send you directly to HELL because you have sex outside of marriage or happen to like sex you go right ahead. If you want to belive that being gay will get you sent to hell because God only loves some of his children and not all of them, you go right ahead. But I'm thinking WTF.
Posted: 8/15/2008 9:25 AM PDT
*clears throat*
Yes, me and 'God' have a very CLOSE and PERSONAL relationship. He is ready to consume anything that drips from my lips. = }
Yes, me and 'God' have a very CLOSE and PERSONAL relationship. He is ready to consume anything that drips from my lips. = }
Posted: 8/15/2008 9:28 AM PDT
liljinx wrote the following post at 8/15/2008 09:23 AM PT
"I believe that there is a Badger in the sky with huge Balls that throws lightning bolts through his penis."
hahahaha That's fucking brilliant. If I had "Redeemable for Oral Sex" cards I'd give you one for that. Unfortunately, they're still at the printer.
"I believe that there is a Badger in the sky with huge Balls that throws lightning bolts through his penis."
hahahaha That's fucking brilliant. If I had "Redeemable for Oral Sex" cards I'd give you one for that. Unfortunately, they're still at the printer.
Posted: 8/15/2008 9:28 AM PDT
The coptic gospels are an interesting example of this editing. The mainstream churches regard them as heresy .. mainly because of their interesting stance on being your own link to God and not needing a priesthood or Church Elect to act as your confessor or somesuch. Also women have a more powerful and active role in the Nag Hammadi gospels ... something else that the mainstream church didn't like.
King James, gets points for getting the Bible out of Latin and into English (allowing normal people to read it) but he did a number on the translation by insisting the word Witch be substituted for Sorceress. Suffer not a Witch to live isn't anywhere in the early bible. mmmmm ...
King James, gets points for getting the Bible out of Latin and into English (allowing normal people to read it) but he did a number on the translation by insisting the word Witch be substituted for Sorceress. Suffer not a Witch to live isn't anywhere in the early bible. mmmmm ...
Posted: 8/15/2008 9:31 AM PDT
Anowalk. I suppose by "many" you are refering to Thomas Jefferson as all atheistics do. Yet, if you read much of him you'll be surprised.
The Humanist manifesto was signed by the important humanists in this country at that time: Thomas Dewey (considered the father of our modern educational system) was a signee. They titled it a manifesto, after the communist manifesto in an era when many of our academics were enamored with the "workers paradise".
The Humanist manifesto was signed by the important humanists in this country at that time: Thomas Dewey (considered the father of our modern educational system) was a signee. They titled it a manifesto, after the communist manifesto in an era when many of our academics were enamored with the "workers paradise".
Posted: 8/15/2008 9:37 AM PDT
To anawalk and inkwell's latest.
Do you have no shame?
Do you have no shame?
Posted: 8/15/2008 9:41 AM PDT
Dude. Get laid.
We're talking about filthy, raunchy, back-arching, toe-curling, suck-on-her-clit-like-a-ring-pop, plough-her-fertile-soil-til-she-comes-the-Red-Sea SEX
SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX
We're talking about filthy, raunchy, back-arching, toe-curling, suck-on-her-clit-like-a-ring-pop, plough-her-fertile-soil-til-she-comes-the-Red-Sea SEX
SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX
Posted: 8/15/2008 9:42 AM PDT
Nope...can't say that I do. I don't consider this a serious topic.
Posted: 8/15/2008 9:44 AM PDT
Alex said:
Dude. Get laid.
We're talking about filthy, raunchy, back-arching, toe-curling, suck-on-her-clit-like-a-ring-pop, plough-her-fertile-soil-til-she-comes-the-Red-Sea SEX
SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX
LMAO
That's why I love this guy. He's so fucking clever = }
Dude. Get laid.
We're talking about filthy, raunchy, back-arching, toe-curling, suck-on-her-clit-like-a-ring-pop, plough-her-fertile-soil-til-she-comes-the-Red-Sea SEX
SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX
LMAO
That's why I love this guy. He's so fucking clever = }
Posted: 8/15/2008 9:47 AM PDT
Aw...and I thought it was cause of my enormous
vocabulary.
vocabulary.
Posted: 8/15/2008 9:51 AM PDT
Well, if we're making a list of you most desireable qualities you enormous, glorious, mind blowing...
vocabulary....would be first on the list.
vocabulary....would be first on the list.
Posted: 8/15/2008 9:52 AM PDT
Anowalk you may e-mail it to me!
And I have to say I ripped it off a little from the Japanese. They have a badger god with huge balls named Tanuki (I don't think he shoots lighting out of his penis, buuuuutttt...)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/studiokumar/2331782666/
And I have to say I ripped it off a little from the Japanese. They have a badger god with huge balls named Tanuki (I don't think he shoots lighting out of his penis, buuuuutttt...)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/studiokumar/2331782666/
Posted: 8/15/2008 9:54 AM PDT
mmmm...large vocabulary...
Posted: 8/15/2008 9:54 AM PDT
Thanks, your sweet.
#1 on your list would be eyes. Cause when you look up at me with those dark, forever warm eyes of yours
it makes me want to make you
gag some more.
#1 on your list would be eyes. Cause when you look up at me with those dark, forever warm eyes of yours
it makes me want to make you
gag some more.
Posted: 8/15/2008 9:56 AM PDT
liljinx:
Holy shit. Where can I buy one of those? In fact, if you can find me one you don't need one of my cards. You can have a life time supply.
Holy shit. Where can I buy one of those? In fact, if you can find me one you don't need one of my cards. You can have a life time supply.
Posted: 8/15/2008 10:01 AM PDT
Awesome: "Here ya go" You can find anything on ebay....
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Japanese-Tanuki-Figurine-Raccoon-Japan-Folklore_W0QQitemZ150282151650QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item150282151650&_trkparms=72%3A1075%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&timeout=1218819698364
http://cgi.ebay.com/Tanuki-Japanese-raccoon-dog-ceramic-statue-7-6_W0QQitemZ360073552030QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Japanese-Tanuki-Figurine-Raccoon-Japan-Folklore_W0QQitemZ150282151650QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item150282151650&_trkparms=72%3A1075%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&timeout=1218819698364
http://cgi.ebay.com/Tanuki-Japanese-raccoon-dog-ceramic-statue-7-6_W0QQitemZ360073552030QQcmdZViewItem
Posted: 8/15/2008 10:03 AM PDT
Okay..but why are his balls so big and his penis so small? What's the point of having all that seed if you don't have a big hoe to plough the fertile soil?
Posted: 8/15/2008 10:07 AM PDT
To Liljinx,
The holy bible says "men wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit". Now, if there is a God, and if he is omnipotent, as he claims, and the Bible is his word; can't we assume that He has the power to protect it against spurious writings. That he can move man to protect it's integrity just as he inspired man to write it? And, should we judge him by what "religious" people do and write, when he says: "many will come to me in that day, and say: Lord have we not preached, prophecised, and done many wonderful WORKS in thy name. And He will say: " depart from me; ye that WORK iniquity." ( That's what God thinks about WORKS religion, and all religion that claims that man gets pardon from God by man's goodness, other than the goodness of Christ, is a false religion..... and all the other religions are works religions; even some going by the name of Christianity.
God bless you.
Lionel
PS. You are the typical agnostic though. You should be ashamed of the "badger" remark.
The holy bible says "men wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit". Now, if there is a God, and if he is omnipotent, as he claims, and the Bible is his word; can't we assume that He has the power to protect it against spurious writings. That he can move man to protect it's integrity just as he inspired man to write it? And, should we judge him by what "religious" people do and write, when he says: "many will come to me in that day, and say: Lord have we not preached, prophecised, and done many wonderful WORKS in thy name. And He will say: " depart from me; ye that WORK iniquity." ( That's what God thinks about WORKS religion, and all religion that claims that man gets pardon from God by man's goodness, other than the goodness of Christ, is a false religion..... and all the other religions are works religions; even some going by the name of Christianity.
God bless you.
Lionel
PS. You are the typical agnostic though. You should be ashamed of the "badger" remark.
Posted: 8/15/2008 10:19 AM PDT
Inkwell: Because he's JAPANESE.
Posted: 8/15/2008 10:20 AM PDT
The soul of man is dark and he will inevitably seek to manipulate and twist any and all information to meet an end of his own design. Not a quote. Just what I think. It's amazing how you can form your own ideas when you don't base your whole existence on antiquitous, jargon filled books steeped in metaphorical bullshit.
Posted: 8/15/2008 10:24 AM PDT
And I'm introducing a new policy for the WeBook forums. Any time anyone quotes the Bible as proof of a point they're arguing, I will go home and use a page of the Bible to roll a massive joint.
Posted: 8/15/2008 10:27 AM PDT
That would be giving it more credit than it's worth. The ganja is holy and sacred and shouldn't be defiled by those dirty words. Instead you should use it to wipe your ass after taking a massive dump. And then mail the shit splattered parables to Lionel and see if he can find something quotable in those lines.
Posted: 8/15/2008 10:49 AM PDT
I like to smoke my favorite stories. Job. Abraham and Isaac. David and Goliath.
It helps me absord the power of their tales.
It helps me absord the power of their tales.
Posted: 8/15/2008 10:54 AM PDT
cool. Smoke some Revelations and write a story about it...lol
Posted: 8/15/2008 10:57 AM PDT
Revelations was the first chapter I ever smoked actually. That was in college. It was 4/20 and we had no papers. It was fun. But then my roommate came home and flipped cause we were smoking the Bible. Then my other roommate flipped and made some racial slurs at him.
Posted: 8/15/2008 11:05 AM PDT
Did you have any revelations when you smoked revelations? And was it your roomates bible? I think it would be more fucked up to smoke someone else's bible then to smoke a bible in general. I mean, I would be really pissed off if I came home to find that my roomates where smoking my Great Gatsby. Ya know? But I still stand my ground...don't wrap the holy and sacred leaves in something so vile.
Posted: 8/15/2008 11:07 AM PDT
No, it was my bible. And he wasn't even really religious. It just rubbed him the wrong way for whatever reason.
Posted: 8/15/2008 11:14 AM PDT
Ugh, I hate people like that. People who say 'Don't take the lord's name in vain!' but call their kids all kids of bastards and muthafuckas. Hypocrites.
Posted: 8/15/2008 1:14 PM PDT
Ok...I'm supposed to be ashamed of the Badger? How can I be ashamed of him? He has a glorious set of balls. Personally I'm proud of the badger can you imagine having to carry those things around?
Here's the reality of the situation folks. If you took 100 children and put them on a deserted island and raised them to worship the GOD Crayola until they reached adulthood and then released them back into the population you would not be able to convince more than 1/3 of that population (if that) that GOD was not infact a large pack of crayons.
"The holy bible says "men wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit". Now, if there is a God, and if he is omnipotent, as he claims, and the Bible is his word; can't we assume that He has the power to protect it against spurious writings."
We can't assume anything. If GOD is as omnipotent as he seems then why is man allowed to do so much evil? If he alows men to do evil all over the world and lie and cheat and steal then why do you think that he wouldn't allow them to misinterperate his word? Because after all we are men giving his word to men. Therefore if a man decides to change it isn't that his FREEWILL and wouldn't GOD allow that as well? Basically, I'm saying if God allows Jack to stab Jane then why wouldn't he allow John to reinterpert thereby harming man as much as Jack harmed Jane.
I don't disbelieve in GOD. I disbelieve in man's abilities to be humble enough not to hold themselves up to be GOD.
Here's the reality of the situation folks. If you took 100 children and put them on a deserted island and raised them to worship the GOD Crayola until they reached adulthood and then released them back into the population you would not be able to convince more than 1/3 of that population (if that) that GOD was not infact a large pack of crayons.
"The holy bible says "men wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit". Now, if there is a God, and if he is omnipotent, as he claims, and the Bible is his word; can't we assume that He has the power to protect it against spurious writings."
We can't assume anything. If GOD is as omnipotent as he seems then why is man allowed to do so much evil? If he alows men to do evil all over the world and lie and cheat and steal then why do you think that he wouldn't allow them to misinterperate his word? Because after all we are men giving his word to men. Therefore if a man decides to change it isn't that his FREEWILL and wouldn't GOD allow that as well? Basically, I'm saying if God allows Jack to stab Jane then why wouldn't he allow John to reinterpert thereby harming man as much as Jack harmed Jane.
I don't disbelieve in GOD. I disbelieve in man's abilities to be humble enough not to hold themselves up to be GOD.
Posted: 8/15/2008 1:26 PM PDT
I think this guy is Bobby the troll in disguise.HP had it right from the begining.
Posted: 8/15/2008 2:55 PM PDT
liljinx....I am sorry i have to ask.
What punishments does he badger god bestow upon his unfaithful worshippers.
Cause I would rather not be swatted with an astral badgers enormous balls...lol
It's funny that of all the argument's I made to lionel the only on he replied to was the communism one.
Did you know that Lenin's Idea of a "Communism" has never truly been attained.
To call the Soviet Union a communism is laughable.
A communism is where every body is equal, and where everybody owns everything equally.
A perfect democracy if you may.
Stalin was a dictator...and you can't have a dictator in a communism.
They are conflicting forms of government.
So a communistic government might actually be the perfect one.
We will never know.
P.S. I'll be sure to check out your poem too
I'm done talkig about religion for now.
_The Impaler Out_
What punishments does he badger god bestow upon his unfaithful worshippers.
Cause I would rather not be swatted with an astral badgers enormous balls...lol
It's funny that of all the argument's I made to lionel the only on he replied to was the communism one.
Did you know that Lenin's Idea of a "Communism" has never truly been attained.
To call the Soviet Union a communism is laughable.
A communism is where every body is equal, and where everybody owns everything equally.
A perfect democracy if you may.
Stalin was a dictator...and you can't have a dictator in a communism.
They are conflicting forms of government.
So a communistic government might actually be the perfect one.
We will never know.
P.S. I'll be sure to check out your poem too
I'm done talkig about religion for now.
_The Impaler Out_
Posted: 8/19/2008 12:30 PM PDT
I assume you are assuming a lot with children and crayons. You are also assuming man has a "free will". It's not taught in scripture. I'll make this as brief as I can. Rom. 8:7 "The carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the law of God; neither indeed can be"- (no ability) 1 Cor.2:14 "The natural man recieveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them (no ability), because they are SPIRITUALLY discerned". It is the SPIRIT that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing. Ye hath He quickened who were "dead" in trespass and sin. I've never heard of something dead making a choice, unless he could choose to stay dead, and I can't imagine him staying dead if someone much more powerful than him, quickened him back to life (spiritual life).
God told Adam:"In the DAY you eat thereof, you shall surely die". Adam lived on many years (physically - got chased from the garden, had children, and all), but he died ,spiritually that day. And, you know: everything after it's own kind.
If you want to read a part of the bible that is never preached on by the "free will" preacher, go to: Rom.9:11 to 24, and you'll see why they don't.
Your last sentence shows wisdom. After God quickens a sinner, the war between the spirit and the flesh has just began, and will continue til death. That's why man needs a savior, an advocate, mediator, redeamer, etc.
Now, about all the pain and misery in the world. God has a great purpose in punishing sin. It reveals his hatred of it, and the mercy of Him in the forgiveness of it. And other reasons. Anyway, " Who art thou, oh' man, to reply; why did you make me if only to die? Who are you to speak to God so? He's your owner, creator, sustainer, you know. If life on earth is as a blink of an eye, in relation to eternity, it's foolish to reply.
I'm a one finger typer, so I'll stop now.
God bless,
Lionel
God told Adam:"In the DAY you eat thereof, you shall surely die". Adam lived on many years (physically - got chased from the garden, had children, and all), but he died ,spiritually that day. And, you know: everything after it's own kind.
If you want to read a part of the bible that is never preached on by the "free will" preacher, go to: Rom.9:11 to 24, and you'll see why they don't.
Your last sentence shows wisdom. After God quickens a sinner, the war between the spirit and the flesh has just began, and will continue til death. That's why man needs a savior, an advocate, mediator, redeamer, etc.
Now, about all the pain and misery in the world. God has a great purpose in punishing sin. It reveals his hatred of it, and the mercy of Him in the forgiveness of it. And other reasons. Anyway, " Who art thou, oh' man, to reply; why did you make me if only to die? Who are you to speak to God so? He's your owner, creator, sustainer, you know. If life on earth is as a blink of an eye, in relation to eternity, it's foolish to reply.
I'm a one finger typer, so I'll stop now.
God bless,
Lionel
Posted: 8/19/2008 12:34 PM PDT
I don't think anyone needs to assume free will. Anyone who has ever struggled with a decision knows about that.
Posted: 8/19/2008 1:07 PM PDT
Okay I adding my 2 cents here, because I can *grins* I went to a catholic collage, not that I am Catholic, but because I liked the smaller private school. One thing I did not like was we were forced to take a theology class and it was taught by an Priest. I held it off as long as I could then caved and took the class.
This little old man came in and blew my mind. Not because he converted me....but because he admitted and this is in his own words the bible is one big long fairy tale, peppered with little bit of truth here and there but like any good movie or book blown up to seem more then it was. Good marketing for God ((I loved that professor!!))
The creation of the planet made in 7 days? He said was made up because at that time the Christians were competing with other religions that had several Gods, and they needed to make the Christian god look more impressive so someone goes oh yeh it took 12, 13 etc gods to make and rule earth, it took our faith one god....oh and he did it in 7 days...beat that. He admitted they stole and borrowed from other Pagan religions
He pointed out that the fact if you read the bible like from cover to cover the story of creation is told in like three ways all jammed together, and makes no sense that the vadican is full of scrolls taken from the bible they do not want us to know. And thses scrolls were translated by monks under the influence of king james.....hence the Heaven is paved in streets of gold and hell is a firey pitt. There is a lot about Jesus we will not hear as a teen getting upset and killing a friend because he cheated while playing a game, Mary yelling at Jesus making him bring the boy back to life....it shows a more human side to him one the church wants us to know nothing about.
This little old man came in and blew my mind. Not because he converted me....but because he admitted and this is in his own words the bible is one big long fairy tale, peppered with little bit of truth here and there but like any good movie or book blown up to seem more then it was. Good marketing for God ((I loved that professor!!))
The creation of the planet made in 7 days? He said was made up because at that time the Christians were competing with other religions that had several Gods, and they needed to make the Christian god look more impressive so someone goes oh yeh it took 12, 13 etc gods to make and rule earth, it took our faith one god....oh and he did it in 7 days...beat that. He admitted they stole and borrowed from other Pagan religions
He pointed out that the fact if you read the bible like from cover to cover the story of creation is told in like three ways all jammed together, and makes no sense that the vadican is full of scrolls taken from the bible they do not want us to know. And thses scrolls were translated by monks under the influence of king james.....hence the Heaven is paved in streets of gold and hell is a firey pitt. There is a lot about Jesus we will not hear as a teen getting upset and killing a friend because he cheated while playing a game, Mary yelling at Jesus making him bring the boy back to life....it shows a more human side to him one the church wants us to know nothing about.
Posted: 8/19/2008 1:10 PM PDT
Okay I adding my 2 cents here, because I can *grins* I went to a catholic collage, not that I am Catholic, but because I liked the smaller private school. One thing I did not like was we were forced to take a theology class and it was taught by an Priest. I held it off as long as I could then caved and took the class.
This little old man came in and blew my mind. Not because he converted me....but because he admitted and this is in his own words the bible is one big long fairy tale, peppered with little bit of truth here and there but like any good movie or book blown up to seem more then it was. Good marketing for God ((I loved that professor!!))
The creation of the planet made in 7 days? He said was made up because at that time the Christians were competing with other religions that had several Gods, and they needed to make the Christian god look more impressive so someone goes oh yeh it took 12, 13 etc gods to make and rule earth, it took our faith one god....oh and he did it in 7 days...beat that. He admitted they stole and borrowed from other Pagan religions
He pointed out that the fact if you read the bible like from cover to cover the story of creation is told in like three ways all jammed together, and makes no sense that the vadican is full of scrolls taken from the bible they do not want us to know. And thses scrolls were translated by monks under the influence of king James.....hence the Heaven is paved in streets of gold and hell is a firey pitt. There is a lot about Jesus we will not hear as a teen getting upset and killing a friend because he cheated while playing a game, Mary yelling at Jesus making him bring the boy back to life....it shows a more human side to him one the church wants us to know nothing about.
He encouraged us to look into other religions but know they were all the same made up stories to compete with other religions. There is nothing wrong with believing as long as you know what you are believing in. Gods I loved that class!!
This little old man came in and blew my mind. Not because he converted me....but because he admitted and this is in his own words the bible is one big long fairy tale, peppered with little bit of truth here and there but like any good movie or book blown up to seem more then it was. Good marketing for God ((I loved that professor!!))
The creation of the planet made in 7 days? He said was made up because at that time the Christians were competing with other religions that had several Gods, and they needed to make the Christian god look more impressive so someone goes oh yeh it took 12, 13 etc gods to make and rule earth, it took our faith one god....oh and he did it in 7 days...beat that. He admitted they stole and borrowed from other Pagan religions
He pointed out that the fact if you read the bible like from cover to cover the story of creation is told in like three ways all jammed together, and makes no sense that the vadican is full of scrolls taken from the bible they do not want us to know. And thses scrolls were translated by monks under the influence of king James.....hence the Heaven is paved in streets of gold and hell is a firey pitt. There is a lot about Jesus we will not hear as a teen getting upset and killing a friend because he cheated while playing a game, Mary yelling at Jesus making him bring the boy back to life....it shows a more human side to him one the church wants us to know nothing about.
He encouraged us to look into other religions but know they were all the same made up stories to compete with other religions. There is nothing wrong with believing as long as you know what you are believing in. Gods I loved that class!!
Posted: 8/19/2008 1:19 PM PDT
To Inkwell,
Ink.....Well, you've got the condition of man, without God, (and many who claim to be Christians), down pat. We see that it is an unsatisfactory condition, even for religious sceptics. What to do, what to do? Gosh, maybe we should look anew at him whom we slew: see if his claims could have merit. The prophets shed light on a Messiah in "type"; see if the scriptures declare it. In the Genesis of old, a wonderful story is told of a singular birth- miraculous: Seed of woman (virgo), a woman shall conceive, calling him Emmanuel= God with us. Did Adam's fig leaf portray his work in brief; an attempt his sinfullness to cover? While the "blood sacrified skin, atoned the sin, covering it rightly all over? Cain's work of his will; the best from his field, Could not win him God's favor. Was Abel's sacrifice - a "type" of Christ's strife, To God a sweet smelling savor? Is: When I see the blood, I'll pass over you, metaphoric too? Is this Christ's passion being shown? The Egyptians paid the price with a useless sacrifice, they had no Savior to atone. If Christ is a King, being destined to reign, over an eternal kingdom. It could not be carnal, for that's not eternal, but a spiritual one, say some. Our confusion is great, as is all sceptics of late, while we wonder in great exasperation. Oh, where is our peace, when will the warfare cease, God, where is our consolation?
God bless
Ink.....Well, you've got the condition of man, without God, (and many who claim to be Christians), down pat. We see that it is an unsatisfactory condition, even for religious sceptics. What to do, what to do? Gosh, maybe we should look anew at him whom we slew: see if his claims could have merit. The prophets shed light on a Messiah in "type"; see if the scriptures declare it. In the Genesis of old, a wonderful story is told of a singular birth- miraculous: Seed of woman (virgo), a woman shall conceive, calling him Emmanuel= God with us. Did Adam's fig leaf portray his work in brief; an attempt his sinfullness to cover? While the "blood sacrified skin, atoned the sin, covering it rightly all over? Cain's work of his will; the best from his field, Could not win him God's favor. Was Abel's sacrifice - a "type" of Christ's strife, To God a sweet smelling savor? Is: When I see the blood, I'll pass over you, metaphoric too? Is this Christ's passion being shown? The Egyptians paid the price with a useless sacrifice, they had no Savior to atone. If Christ is a King, being destined to reign, over an eternal kingdom. It could not be carnal, for that's not eternal, but a spiritual one, say some. Our confusion is great, as is all sceptics of late, while we wonder in great exasperation. Oh, where is our peace, when will the warfare cease, God, where is our consolation?
God bless
Posted: 8/19/2008 1:20 PM PDT
God bless you too. That was the only bit of your post I understood.
;D
;D
Posted: 8/19/2008 1:28 PM PDT
To Inkwell,
Ink.....Well, you've got the condition of man, without God, (and many who claim to be Christians), down pat. We see that it is an unsatisfactory condition, even for religious sceptics. What to do, what to do? Gosh, maybe we should look anew at him whom we slew: see if his claims could have merit. The prophets shed light on a Messiah in "type"; see if the scriptures declare it. In the Genesis of old, a wonderful story is told of a singular birth- miraculous: Seed of woman (virgo), a woman shall conceive, calling him Emmanuel= God with us. Did Adam's fig leaf portray his work in brief; an attempt his sinfullness to cover? While the "blood sacrified skin, atoned the sin, covering it rightly all over? Cain's work of his will; the best from his field, Could not win him God's favor. Was Abel's sacrifice - a "type" of Christ's strife, To God a sweet smelling savor? Is: When I see the blood, I'll pass over you, metaphoric too? Is this Christ's passion being shown? The Egyptians paid the price with a useless sacrifice, they had no Savior to atone. If Christ is a King, being destined to reign, over an eternal kingdom. It could not be carnal, for that's not eternal, but a spiritual one, say some. Our confusion is great, as is all sceptics of late, while we wonder in great exasperation. Oh, where is our peace, when will the warfare cease, God, where is our consolation?
God bless
Ink.....Well, you've got the condition of man, without God, (and many who claim to be Christians), down pat. We see that it is an unsatisfactory condition, even for religious sceptics. What to do, what to do? Gosh, maybe we should look anew at him whom we slew: see if his claims could have merit. The prophets shed light on a Messiah in "type"; see if the scriptures declare it. In the Genesis of old, a wonderful story is told of a singular birth- miraculous: Seed of woman (virgo), a woman shall conceive, calling him Emmanuel= God with us. Did Adam's fig leaf portray his work in brief; an attempt his sinfullness to cover? While the "blood sacrified skin, atoned the sin, covering it rightly all over? Cain's work of his will; the best from his field, Could not win him God's favor. Was Abel's sacrifice - a "type" of Christ's strife, To God a sweet smelling savor? Is: When I see the blood, I'll pass over you, metaphoric too? Is this Christ's passion being shown? The Egyptians paid the price with a useless sacrifice, they had no Savior to atone. If Christ is a King, being destined to reign, over an eternal kingdom. It could not be carnal, for that's not eternal, but a spiritual one, say some. Our confusion is great, as is all sceptics of late, while we wonder in great exasperation. Oh, where is our peace, when will the warfare cease, God, where is our consolation?
God bless
Posted: 8/19/2008 1:31 PM PDT
We're gonna call you Lionel Two Times cause you say everything twice...
say everything twice...
say everything twice...
Posted: 8/19/2008 1:39 PM PDT
I hadn't noticed, I hadn't noticed.
Vaseline vaseline?
Vaseline vaseline?
Posted: 8/19/2008 2:08 PM PDT
To dragonfly. Finally, you found the long sought after authority; the last word. I mean, how could he be wrong - He's a Preist. And you've been re-enforced in those opinions by the secular world ever since: and this puts you in control.
But wait:
(An appeal to Secular reason)
If life's complete term is this earthly sojourn,
What value is to be found in morality?
Why should we yearn for high knowledge to learn,
or have need of reputation and fidelity?
Let's consume, every day, our limited stay
not careing the consequence to others.
Let's ruthlessly flay those who get in the way,
and be selfish in the treatment of lovers.
Because, if life, after all, is just nature's call,
from where come these thoughts of virtue?
Better yet would never to live,
if no more than this life we attain to.
Penalty and reward have meaning no more
if this be the end we're doomed to.
A short lapse in time, why not profit in crime,
restraint becomes a foolhardy menu.
If I'm the duped one in the worship of God's son,
No loss comes to me in my passing:
But, if right, I reply, when the sceptic shall die,
the grief and remorse could be "gnashing.
But wait:
(An appeal to Secular reason)
If life's complete term is this earthly sojourn,
What value is to be found in morality?
Why should we yearn for high knowledge to learn,
or have need of reputation and fidelity?
Let's consume, every day, our limited stay
not careing the consequence to others.
Let's ruthlessly flay those who get in the way,
and be selfish in the treatment of lovers.
Because, if life, after all, is just nature's call,
from where come these thoughts of virtue?
Better yet would never to live,
if no more than this life we attain to.
Penalty and reward have meaning no more
if this be the end we're doomed to.
A short lapse in time, why not profit in crime,
restraint becomes a foolhardy menu.
If I'm the duped one in the worship of God's son,
No loss comes to me in my passing:
But, if right, I reply, when the sceptic shall die,
the grief and remorse could be "gnashing.
Posted: 8/19/2008 2:17 PM PDT
I hate this fucking thread!!! Sacrifice a lamb or jump off a cliff I could care less but kill this fucking post, shit. ~V~
Posted: 8/19/2008 2:19 PM PDT
To leeroybrown.....because if you can not read and correctly spell the word Dragonfire, I can not be bothered to spell your name right either.
Dude I am a believer of something...what I am not gonna say because honestly I do not want to convert anyone to my way of thinking. The professor, was the best teacher I had in collage any class that encourages free thought and promotes free thinking is not bad.
As to the rest you wrote *yawn*
Dude I am a believer of something...what I am not gonna say because honestly I do not want to convert anyone to my way of thinking. The professor, was the best teacher I had in collage any class that encourages free thought and promotes free thinking is not bad.
As to the rest you wrote *yawn*
Posted: 8/19/2008 2:20 PM PDT
Oh and FYI 'humanism' is the act of being humane or more simply having morals and ethics, not a coked out Jesus following religion. Use some other word for your cracked out reality! ~V~
Posted: 8/19/2008 2:45 PM PDT
Vlad. That's what they called themselves from the beginning to the end. Communists That's what the world recognised them to be. It was simply the dictatorship of the prolatariat. The wisest ATHEISTS just rose to the top of the heap. It was man trusting in the basic "goodness" of MAN. It was man going his own 'intelligent" way. You've got those "paradises" in Cuba and China. Do you have confidence thay will get it right? Everyone was equal in communist Russia. Some were just more equal than others.
You are right about us never knowing if a pure communism would be best. You know why? Because of the "nature" of man. He's a fallen being, basically, an enemy of God - selfish, envyous, adultrious, prideful, etc. The bible says: "the PLOWING of the wicked is sin". Because, it's done of the wrong motive = (self motivated ).
You are right about us never knowing if a pure communism would be best. You know why? Because of the "nature" of man. He's a fallen being, basically, an enemy of God - selfish, envyous, adultrious, prideful, etc. The bible says: "the PLOWING of the wicked is sin". Because, it's done of the wrong motive = (self motivated ).
Posted: 8/19/2008 3:05 PM PDT
VODONOHUE,
Shouldn't you take them at their word? They call it a religion - I'm just quoting them. Punch up " Humanist Manifesto" on your search ingine and read it for yourself. Maybe they are just more honest than most humanists.
The Communists are humanists. It is a religion to them. I know all about the humane promise: Utopia (Eden), Workers paradise, Communes, etc , but that's why a wise man coined the phrase: The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
It all has to do with the denial of a basic Bible statement about the true nature of man. He is not basically good. He is plagued with sinfulness. Really = self interest.... love of self.
God bless
Shouldn't you take them at their word? They call it a religion - I'm just quoting them. Punch up " Humanist Manifesto" on your search ingine and read it for yourself. Maybe they are just more honest than most humanists.
The Communists are humanists. It is a religion to them. I know all about the humane promise: Utopia (Eden), Workers paradise, Communes, etc , but that's why a wise man coined the phrase: The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
It all has to do with the denial of a basic Bible statement about the true nature of man. He is not basically good. He is plagued with sinfulness. Really = self interest.... love of self.
God bless
Posted: 8/19/2008 3:14 PM PDT
Dragonfire, I am truly sorry for writing it wrong before. I really didn't do it intentionally.
Sincerely, Lionel
Sincerely, Lionel
Posted: 8/19/2008 3:15 PM PDT
hu·man·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈhyü-mə-ˌni-zəm, ˈyü-\
Function: noun
Date: 1832
1 a: devotion to the humanities : literary culture b: the revival of classical letters, individualistic and critical spirit, and emphasis on secular concerns characteristic of the Renaissance
2: humanitarianism
3: a doctrine, attitude, or way of life centered on human interests or values; especially : a philosophy that usually rejects supernaturalism and stresses an individual's dignity and worth and capacity for self-realization through reason
— hu·man·ist \-nist\ noun or adjective
— hu·man·is·tic \ˌhyü-mə-ˈnis-tik, ˌyü-\ adjective
— hu·man·is·ti·cal·ly \-ti-k(ə-)lē\ adverb
Pronunciation: \ˈhyü-mə-ˌni-zəm, ˈyü-\
Function: noun
Date: 1832
1 a: devotion to the humanities : literary culture b: the revival of classical letters, individualistic and critical spirit, and emphasis on secular concerns characteristic of the Renaissance
2: humanitarianism
3: a doctrine, attitude, or way of life centered on human interests or values; especially : a philosophy that usually rejects supernaturalism and stresses an individual's dignity and worth and capacity for self-realization through reason
— hu·man·ist \-nist\ noun or adjective
— hu·man·is·tic \ˌhyü-mə-ˈnis-tik, ˌyü-\ adjective
— hu·man·is·ti·cal·ly \-ti-k(ə-)lē\ adverb
Posted: 8/19/2008 3:19 PM PDT
It will be fun when everybody dies to see where they go, (In fun i mean oh no i'm dead that sucks) because in truth you may think you know where your going but you do not. Nobody knows 100% what happens after they die, I don't care what you say it is a simple fact. The only way you could know is if you died for a period of time and then were brought back to life, except that it might have been an hallucination or something other thing, also if you told someone that person wouldn't 100% know what happened because to them you could be lying.
So if that made sense great, if not than i don't care not going to spend the time to make it legible.
So if that made sense great, if not than i don't care not going to spend the time to make it legible.
Posted: 8/19/2008 5:12 PM PDT
All I can say is wow. I think I forgot how offensive people can find religion in general. It does scare me a bit I suppose. I mean I am a christian and apparently to say so is to invite a great amount of criticism and anger. Though I should probably point out that I don't agree with alot if not most of what Lionel had to say. I skimmed over most of it and pretty much just read the replies so I can't say ALL cause I didn't read it all. I find it a bit scary because it is becoming more and more difficult for me to live out my beliefs in life in general. I try really hard not to "shove" anything down anyone's throat but I believe what I believe and I can't apologize for that belief. But more and more even in the bible belt I am asked to. Do christians have it all right, no I get why people get mad and I cringe inside when I see christians attack others for their beliefs it is wrong. We get it wrong often enough (obviously, and when I say get it wrong I am not talking about christian beliefs I am talking more about the attitude and approach towards others.) I mean as lionel himself pointed out Christ taught us to love one another. In fact he taught that we should love each other and esteem each other as better than ourselves. And while that does not mean that I have to bow down and apologize for my beliefs it does mean that there is a certain respect, love and grace that I should use when talking with anyone regardless of their race, ethnicity, heritage, belief system. And I believe strongly that if we not just christians but everyone would treat each other with that kind of respect and love than we would be much better off as a whole. But someone said it in the thread and I can't remember who people have a tendency to want to dominate and control and in the long run it causes alot of problems. A fact christianity would explain as sin nature and a result of the fall of man. But anyway that is my two cents I don't mind knowing what you think about it. I just thought I would share a christian perspective that wasn't lionel's.
Oh and Lionel are you calvinist? Cause the whole lack of free will thing is totally a calvinist view and I don't think that scripture supports the basic tenants of calvinism and it would also help me better understand some of the other things that you said, putting them into a better context.
Oh and Lionel are you calvinist? Cause the whole lack of free will thing is totally a calvinist view and I don't think that scripture supports the basic tenants of calvinism and it would also help me better understand some of the other things that you said, putting them into a better context.
Posted: 8/19/2008 11:01 PM PDT
I hate this fucktard and this stupid thread. There is absolutely no point in it. The best part was when anowalk passed out oral sex cards. I am getting me one of those.
There is no point in arguing with this lionel, because religion is such a gobbed up mess that even a lawyer couldn't definitively prove anything. And it riles people up, which makes them even more incoherent.
But may I just point out that the Communist Manifesto as written by Marx had nothing to do with so called "communist" countries like Germany and Russia. If you would do any research whatsoever you would realize this. I don't even have to argue. You can lay it out in quantifiable fact.
There is no point in arguing with this lionel, because religion is such a gobbed up mess that even a lawyer couldn't definitively prove anything. And it riles people up, which makes them even more incoherent.
But may I just point out that the Communist Manifesto as written by Marx had nothing to do with so called "communist" countries like Germany and Russia. If you would do any research whatsoever you would realize this. I don't even have to argue. You can lay it out in quantifiable fact.
Posted: 8/19/2008 11:07 PM PDT
The most preposterous notion that H. Sapiens has ever dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not receive this flattery. Yet this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all of history.
Robert Heinlein
God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent-it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks, please. Cash and in small bills.
Again, Robert Heinlein
There are hidden contradictions within the minds of people who “love nature” while deploring the “artificialities” with which “Man has spoiled ‘Nature.” The obvious contradiction lies in their choice of words, which imply that Man and his artifacts are not part of “Nature”--but beavers and their damns are. But the contradictions go deeper than this prima-facie absurdity. In declaring his love for a beaver damn (erected by beavers for beaver’s purposes) and his hatred for dams erected by men (for the purpose of men) the “Naturist” reveals his hatred for his own race--i.e., his own self-hatred. In the case of “Naturists” such self—hatred is understandable; they are such a sorry lot. But hatred is too strong an emotion to feel toward them; pity and contempt are the most they rate. As for me, willy-nilly I am a man, not a beaver, and H. Sapiens is the only race I have or can have. Fortunately for me, I like being part of a race made up of men and women-- it strikes me as a fine arrangement and perfectly “natural.” Believe it or not, there were “Naturists” who opposed the first flight to old Earth’s Moon as being “unnatural” and a “despoiling of nature.”
And yet again, Robert Heinlein.
Just read the quotes, and think about 'em.
Kelly
Robert Heinlein
God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent-it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks, please. Cash and in small bills.
Again, Robert Heinlein
There are hidden contradictions within the minds of people who “love nature” while deploring the “artificialities” with which “Man has spoiled ‘Nature.” The obvious contradiction lies in their choice of words, which imply that Man and his artifacts are not part of “Nature”--but beavers and their damns are. But the contradictions go deeper than this prima-facie absurdity. In declaring his love for a beaver damn (erected by beavers for beaver’s purposes) and his hatred for dams erected by men (for the purpose of men) the “Naturist” reveals his hatred for his own race--i.e., his own self-hatred. In the case of “Naturists” such self—hatred is understandable; they are such a sorry lot. But hatred is too strong an emotion to feel toward them; pity and contempt are the most they rate. As for me, willy-nilly I am a man, not a beaver, and H. Sapiens is the only race I have or can have. Fortunately for me, I like being part of a race made up of men and women-- it strikes me as a fine arrangement and perfectly “natural.” Believe it or not, there were “Naturists” who opposed the first flight to old Earth’s Moon as being “unnatural” and a “despoiling of nature.”
And yet again, Robert Heinlein.
Just read the quotes, and think about 'em.
Kelly
Posted: 8/19/2008 11:41 PM PDT
Ahhhh, Heinlein. I spent half of last week at my mum's place, reading in front of the fire. I found all my old sci fi books, and ended up re-reading about 5 Heinlein books. It was great.
Posted: 8/19/2008 11:46 PM PDT
Are we still talking to this freak?
Posted: 8/19/2008 11:49 PM PDT
Which 5? Can't help myself. I adore Heinlein novels.
Last time I rented a movie the chick at the counter asked me if I'd seen Starship Troopers 3.
I said, "No, I loved the book to much to watch the movies."
She said, "There's a book? About the movie?"
I said, "No. The movie is based on a book."
How does this fit in the thread?
We've stopped thinking for ourselves. Well, a good bunch of "us" has. We'd really rather see the movie.
It's sad.
If we'd just think! How great we could be! How great this argument could be!
I love a good argument.
Kelly
Last time I rented a movie the chick at the counter asked me if I'd seen Starship Troopers 3.
I said, "No, I loved the book to much to watch the movies."
She said, "There's a book? About the movie?"
I said, "No. The movie is based on a book."
How does this fit in the thread?
We've stopped thinking for ourselves. Well, a good bunch of "us" has. We'd really rather see the movie.
It's sad.
If we'd just think! How great we could be! How great this argument could be!
I love a good argument.
Kelly
Posted: 8/19/2008 11:55 PM PDT
Not sure who Kelly is talking to, but I like listening in ;o)
Posted: 8/20/2008 12:02 AM PDT
Well I was talking to the person who read 5 Heinlein novels.
But I'll argue with anyone. About anything ;) It's the discussion that counts.
I might never agree with you, but I'd fight to the death to insure your right to express your opinion.
It wouldn't take very long, the fight to the death. But I'm committed!
To the ideal, not an institution!
Kelly
But I'll argue with anyone. About anything ;) It's the discussion that counts.
I might never agree with you, but I'd fight to the death to insure your right to express your opinion.
It wouldn't take very long, the fight to the death. But I'm committed!
To the ideal, not an institution!
Kelly
Posted: 8/20/2008 12:11 AM PDT
I’d rather just buy you a beer, then talk your ear off :)
Posted: 8/20/2008 12:16 AM PDT
Works for me! I adore beer.
I hate wine snobs. I mean it has to cost $50 a bottle to taste good. I'd rather drink Guiness!
Tell me when and where! My ears are pretty hard to talk off. You might be in for a pretty stiff tab!
I hate wine snobs. I mean it has to cost $50 a bottle to taste good. I'd rather drink Guiness!
Tell me when and where! My ears are pretty hard to talk off. You might be in for a pretty stiff tab!
Posted: 8/20/2008 12:21 AM PDT
aye, the gift of gab has been well and long bestowed upon me ... your ears don’t stand a chance ... NYC ... any pub in a storm for I fear no tab ~!~
Posted: 8/20/2008 12:26 AM PDT
Oh, my laddie! You'll be up against another from Ireland! We'll both be seeing the wee men 'for we're done!
You canna mess with an Irish Lass in Texas, but I might be willing to see the big city!
You canna mess with an Irish Lass in Texas, but I might be willing to see the big city!
Posted: 8/20/2008 12:40 AM PDT
Texas, lovely place have spent time in the airports there ... big city is where the big talk is :)
Posted: 8/20/2008 12:44 AM PDT
But I don't live in a big city. I live in a tiny town of 2,500. Where Texas Began! Our founder was buried standing up, facing west with a bottle of whiskey in his hand.
I can live up to Brit Bailey.
I can live up to Brit Bailey.
Posted: 8/20/2008 12:49 AM PDT
James B. ... but was the bottle half empty or half full? But more importantly, was he pouring shots?
Posted: 8/20/2008 12:50 AM PDT
The bottle's always half full...until you need another one!
A real Irishman doesn't pour shots, he, or she, drinks!
A real Irishman doesn't pour shots, he, or she, drinks!
Posted: 8/20/2008 12:54 AM PDT
Aye, but isn’t there as legend about taking a bottle form a dead man’s hand?
Posted: 8/20/2008 12:58 AM PDT
So you're a sailor man then? Or is it "That Play" you'd be referring to? I know too many legends about bottles and dead men's hands.
Or are you saying I'll be taking the bottle from you when you pass out? ; )
Or are you saying I'll be taking the bottle from you when you pass out? ; )
Posted: 8/20/2008 1:04 AM PDT
Too many legends of a dead man’s hand on land or at sea. ...
But in all recorded history there is no mention of a bottle of whiskey being taken from these hands nor any of the whiskey lasting longer than he ...
But in all recorded history there is no mention of a bottle of whiskey being taken from these hands nor any of the whiskey lasting longer than he ...
Posted: 8/20/2008 1:08 AM PDT
No? Really?
What about Nelson's crew drinking the brandy out of the cask in which his body was stored? Until there was no more brandy.
What about Nelson's crew drinking the brandy out of the cask in which his body was stored? Until there was no more brandy.
Posted: 8/20/2008 5:38 AM PDT
Okay, I'm convinced this guy suffers from Aspergers Syndrome or something. Not only did he post a message to me twice here he also sent messaged me! So now after carpool and a generous amount of coffee I will send my reply.
Lionel: It is clear that you are miserable here on earth amongst the sinful masses. The constant quest to indoctrinate us has you spent. Why not just end it all? Go and join you Lord God and Savior in the light. Eternity awaits with boundless time to praise Him with people of like minds. But as for me and my soul...that's my fucking business. I have no condition of 'man'. The condition I have is common sense. Well, let me rephrase that because apparently common sense is anything but common so we will call it preferred sense instead. I would prefer that you had the sense not to believe in fairy tales...you're a grown man and should have abandoned that practice long ago. However, if you chose to do so, please make an attempt not to draw me into you mental illness.
That is all...
Be well.
And people think it's hard to be a christian? Really? How often do you have someone attack you in this fashion about your beliefs? A true Christian heart does not believe in separatism as so many christians have come to believe. Drawing lines and condemning people to hell? HOW ABSURD!! It always amazes me...the king kong balls on these fucking bible thumpers. My sin, my soul, my fucking business. If it is at all possible, please refrain from bludgeoning me about the head with your word of god. Really all it does is reiterate my point.
Lionel: It is clear that you are miserable here on earth amongst the sinful masses. The constant quest to indoctrinate us has you spent. Why not just end it all? Go and join you Lord God and Savior in the light. Eternity awaits with boundless time to praise Him with people of like minds. But as for me and my soul...that's my fucking business. I have no condition of 'man'. The condition I have is common sense. Well, let me rephrase that because apparently common sense is anything but common so we will call it preferred sense instead. I would prefer that you had the sense not to believe in fairy tales...you're a grown man and should have abandoned that practice long ago. However, if you chose to do so, please make an attempt not to draw me into you mental illness.
That is all...
Be well.
And people think it's hard to be a christian? Really? How often do you have someone attack you in this fashion about your beliefs? A true Christian heart does not believe in separatism as so many christians have come to believe. Drawing lines and condemning people to hell? HOW ABSURD!! It always amazes me...the king kong balls on these fucking bible thumpers. My sin, my soul, my fucking business. If it is at all possible, please refrain from bludgeoning me about the head with your word of god. Really all it does is reiterate my point.
Posted: 8/20/2008 6:15 AM PDT
inkwell wrote the following post at 8/20/2008 05:38 AM PT and people think it's hard to be a christian? Really? How often do you have someone attack you in this fashion about your beliefs? A true Christian heart does not believe in separatism as so many christians have come to believe. Drawing lines and condemning people to hell? HOW ABSURD!! It always amazes me...the king kong balls on these fucking bible thumpers. My sin, my soul, my fucking business. If it is at all possible, please refrain from bludgeoning me about the head with your word of god. Really all it does is reiterate my point
Ink I think you are sooo right! One day when these people kick it they are going to get a wake up call cause honestly if thats the way their god wants them to act or believe then honestly I don't want to have anything to do with em and would happily burn in hell or where ever then with the priggish all knowing judgmental pricks.
Ink I think you are sooo right! One day when these people kick it they are going to get a wake up call cause honestly if thats the way their god wants them to act or believe then honestly I don't want to have anything to do with em and would happily burn in hell or where ever then with the priggish all knowing judgmental pricks.
Posted: 8/20/2008 9:02 AM PDT
Ink...he wrote me too!
Oh, and for all those who want to know..The Badger punishes the unworthy by making them hold up his massive balls so he can walk around easier and for the massively evil he gives them the spot underneath the massive balls and to their chigrin and consternation he's a sweaty Badger.
Oh, and for all those who want to know..The Badger punishes the unworthy by making them hold up his massive balls so he can walk around easier and for the massively evil he gives them the spot underneath the massive balls and to their chigrin and consternation he's a sweaty Badger.
Posted: 8/20/2008 5:31 PM PDT
Heinlein books I consumed last weekend were: Farmer in the Sky, Double Star, Methuselah's Children, Tunnel in the Sky and Have Spacesuit Will Travel.
Posted: 8/20/2008 9:49 PM PDT
katybelle,
How refreshing you are. Your writing reveals the marks of a Christian: Meekness, Mercifulness, pureness of heart, a peacemaker, and drawing unearned persecution. Yes, I believe the Calvinists closest to the truth, generally . It's the only system of belief that reconciles scripture that seems "free will", like: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved", (seeming as if you saved yourself by you doing something), and Scripture like John 6:29 & Phil.1:29 "This is the WORK OF GOD, THAT YE BELIEVE on him whom he hath sent". In other words, if belief is the work of God, then Holy Spirit Quickening comes before belief, and anyone who believes on the Lord shall be saved- -after quickening. Wouldn't then God be charged as violating the "free will", by the freewiller? Also, If a man, by true "free will" (meaning on his on) believes; he did a WORK that saved him, and he LET God in, GAVE God a chance. (examples of "free will" talk that go contrary to much scripture - like: "John 6:44 & 6:65 & 17:9, Ephes.1:4 & 2:8, Heb.12:2, Rom.8:7,1Cor.2:14 And there are many more examples of this sort of "seeming" inconsistancies in scripture that are cleared up by belief in the soveriegnty of God.
God doeth his will in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth, and none can stay his hand, or say unto him - what doest thou?
By the way, Have you ever read Rom.9:10 thru 24. Don't read it if you want to stay a believer in free will.
Lastly, I'm only expressing my understanding, -crudely though it may be. I hope I haven't offended you in some way. I don't believe we are saved by what we know anyway - but WHO we know, meaning Christ. Bless his wonderfull name. I also believe you to be closer to him than me, judging by what you wrote.
God bless you.
Lionel
How refreshing you are. Your writing reveals the marks of a Christian: Meekness, Mercifulness, pureness of heart, a peacemaker, and drawing unearned persecution. Yes, I believe the Calvinists closest to the truth, generally . It's the only system of belief that reconciles scripture that seems "free will", like: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved", (seeming as if you saved yourself by you doing something), and Scripture like John 6:29 & Phil.1:29 "This is the WORK OF GOD, THAT YE BELIEVE on him whom he hath sent". In other words, if belief is the work of God, then Holy Spirit Quickening comes before belief, and anyone who believes on the Lord shall be saved- -after quickening. Wouldn't then God be charged as violating the "free will", by the freewiller? Also, If a man, by true "free will" (meaning on his on) believes; he did a WORK that saved him, and he LET God in, GAVE God a chance. (examples of "free will" talk that go contrary to much scripture - like: "John 6:44 & 6:65 & 17:9, Ephes.1:4 & 2:8, Heb.12:2, Rom.8:7,1Cor.2:14 And there are many more examples of this sort of "seeming" inconsistancies in scripture that are cleared up by belief in the soveriegnty of God.
God doeth his will in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth, and none can stay his hand, or say unto him - what doest thou?
By the way, Have you ever read Rom.9:10 thru 24. Don't read it if you want to stay a believer in free will.
Lastly, I'm only expressing my understanding, -crudely though it may be. I hope I haven't offended you in some way. I don't believe we are saved by what we know anyway - but WHO we know, meaning Christ. Bless his wonderfull name. I also believe you to be closer to him than me, judging by what you wrote.
God bless you.
Lionel
Posted: 8/20/2008 9:57 PM PDT
Drawing unearned persecution?? One of the marks of a good Christian is drawing UNEARNED PERSECUTION????
I'm sorry, why would I want to be a Christian again? The job benefits don't seem worth it, somehow...
I'm sorry, why would I want to be a Christian again? The job benefits don't seem worth it, somehow...
Posted: 8/20/2008 10:17 PM PDT
Dear Inkwell,
Why the name calling and cursing? Have I tried to indoctrinate you; draw you into my "mental illness"? Shouldn't people who have opinions differant from yours have the right to start a thread? I started this thread. Did I force you some "magical" way to come here? You know what they say: " If you can't take the heat, etc.
As far as your soul being your business, God may have something to say about that, but I don't.
As for your suggestion of suicide; I answered you scripturily, and completely, so I want embarrass you further by a repeat here.I am sorry I enraged you with my opinions though. I assumed that people would be humane here. Humane....get it?
May God bless you, I pray.
Lionel
Why the name calling and cursing? Have I tried to indoctrinate you; draw you into my "mental illness"? Shouldn't people who have opinions differant from yours have the right to start a thread? I started this thread. Did I force you some "magical" way to come here? You know what they say: " If you can't take the heat, etc.
As far as your soul being your business, God may have something to say about that, but I don't.
As for your suggestion of suicide; I answered you scripturily, and completely, so I want embarrass you further by a repeat here.I am sorry I enraged you with my opinions though. I assumed that people would be humane here. Humane....get it?
May God bless you, I pray.
Lionel
Posted: 8/20/2008 10:22 PM PDT
Senorita,
They just don't "seem" to be. And the life to come, WOW
They just don't "seem" to be. And the life to come, WOW
Posted: 8/20/2008 11:02 PM PDT
How do you know? You been there?
Why don't you just enjoy the life you know you've got now. Do you think God wants you to waste this life? Seriously. You make no sense. I've tried to look at it objectively, but I don't think the God you're talking about I want to be associated with. He seems like a mean, petty little bastard from the way you're describing him.
Why don't you just enjoy the life you know you've got now. Do you think God wants you to waste this life? Seriously. You make no sense. I've tried to look at it objectively, but I don't think the God you're talking about I want to be associated with. He seems like a mean, petty little bastard from the way you're describing him.
Posted: 8/20/2008 11:13 PM PDT
If you really subscribe to fundamentalist christian beliefs, God does want you to waste this life.
Their God doesn't want you to drink deep of experience. He doesn't want you to enjoy your time here. He wants to you to be in this world, but no of it. Their God wants you to deny yourself any and every pleasure your body or this world might afford you.
I sure that somebody, somewhere, some when, got their wires crossed.
What is the use of putting souls in this world if you refuse to let them have pleasure?
If you listen to fundamentalist preachers, every emotion is a sin.
I say, the only sin is hurting yourself.
Live. Love. Laugh.
If God didn't want us to enjoy ourselves, he wouldn't have created erogenous zones.
Their God doesn't want you to drink deep of experience. He doesn't want you to enjoy your time here. He wants to you to be in this world, but no of it. Their God wants you to deny yourself any and every pleasure your body or this world might afford you.
I sure that somebody, somewhere, some when, got their wires crossed.
What is the use of putting souls in this world if you refuse to let them have pleasure?
If you listen to fundamentalist preachers, every emotion is a sin.
I say, the only sin is hurting yourself.
Live. Love. Laugh.
If God didn't want us to enjoy ourselves, he wouldn't have created erogenous zones.
Posted: 8/21/2008 4:23 AM PDT
Lionel...you play games? When you started messaging me personally and calling me out by name that's when it crossed the line from simple presentation of knowledge to actual indoctrination.
Stop raping my inbox.
I do not believe in your god.
Stop raping the forums.
Just stop all together. Jesus told me to do it is not an excuse.
Stop raping my inbox.
I do not believe in your god.
Stop raping the forums.
Just stop all together. Jesus told me to do it is not an excuse.
Posted: 8/21/2008 5:00 AM PDT
Inkwell...
He talks to dead people?Yep he's crazy!
He talks to dead people?Yep he's crazy!
Posted: 8/22/2008 11:13 PM PDT
Dear Senorita,
What you wrote would be comical if it wasn't so tragic. We have entirely differant opinions of what life's enjoyment and waste is. In one scripture God, through a prophet declares to Israel: You thought I was one altogether like unto yourselves, but as the heavens are higher than the earth are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts higher than your thoughts. From what you have written, you seem to want God to be like unto you as Israel did - don't you think?.
What you wrote would be comical if it wasn't so tragic. We have entirely differant opinions of what life's enjoyment and waste is. In one scripture God, through a prophet declares to Israel: You thought I was one altogether like unto yourselves, but as the heavens are higher than the earth are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts higher than your thoughts. From what you have written, you seem to want God to be like unto you as Israel did - don't you think?.
Posted: 8/22/2008 11:43 PM PDT
Dear Kelly,
You "seem" to think you know an awful lot about the "fundamentalist" God. I've found that the Christian God does let you learn from experience, lets you enjoy life and pleasure, and gives you great peace and purpose. I want pretend to defend fundamentalist preachers; I'm sure they can do that for themselves, but I've listened to quite a few of them over the years, and never heard one declare that every emotion is sin. I agree with you, partly, that sin hurts the one doing the sin, but don't you think the sin of theft, or murder, or even gossip hurts more than only the one doing the sin? I also, as you, say live, love, and laugh; that,s not denied us by God. All I'll say about your last sentence is: Truth is, it has something to do with true love and reproduction.
May God further enlighten us both.
Lionel
You "seem" to think you know an awful lot about the "fundamentalist" God. I've found that the Christian God does let you learn from experience, lets you enjoy life and pleasure, and gives you great peace and purpose. I want pretend to defend fundamentalist preachers; I'm sure they can do that for themselves, but I've listened to quite a few of them over the years, and never heard one declare that every emotion is sin. I agree with you, partly, that sin hurts the one doing the sin, but don't you think the sin of theft, or murder, or even gossip hurts more than only the one doing the sin? I also, as you, say live, love, and laugh; that,s not denied us by God. All I'll say about your last sentence is: Truth is, it has something to do with true love and reproduction.
May God further enlighten us both.
Lionel
Posted: 8/22/2008 11:45 PM PDT
Hmmmm ... I wonder ... if God were the perfect author via the Bible, why are you compelled to write more? Are you questioning His ability?
jfx
jfx
Posted: 8/22/2008 11:48 PM PDT
AAAHHHHHHAHAHAHA I'm the next Shakespeare according to this Bobby Meade Junior! I can write tragic comedies!! Yess!
JESUS INVENTED SODOMY you nitwit. What else do you think all those disciples were for? HAAAHAHAHA.
*Is it mean to taunt the village idiot?*
JESUS INVENTED SODOMY you nitwit. What else do you think all those disciples were for? HAAAHAHAHA.
*Is it mean to taunt the village idiot?*
Posted: 8/25/2008 11:48 AM PDT
Inkwell,
I'm sorry I've, apparently, offended you somehow, and I'm sorry you didn't enjoy our discussion.
May God bless you.
I'm sorry I've, apparently, offended you somehow, and I'm sorry you didn't enjoy our discussion.
May God bless you.
Posted: 8/25/2008 11:54 AM PDT
Yes, I'ts mean to taunt the village idiot, but you are really taunting God by what you've written. You are infering him to be a sodomist. You should be very ashamed.
Posted: 8/25/2008 12:03 PM PDT
God wants to destroy us, it says so in Revelations. And yet you worship him. Why should we even care what you think, if you actually want the world to die at the hands of your God?
Posted: 8/25/2008 7:27 PM PDT
Sorry, I'm not ashamed. God and I had a discussion the other day and he's actually got this great sense of humor...you should have a chat with him and see. Did you know that God is, in fact, a woman?
Posted: 8/25/2008 7:41 PM PDT
Let me first say...I don't believe in 'god' or 'GOD' or 'God' or however you want to see it in print. BUT if there is a god he's one twisted fuck. Let's examine this for a moment. He creates these beautiful, willful creatures (us) whom he says he loves more than himself, but then gives us all these vices and desires and instincts that are directly in contradiction to the doctrine that he hath lain down for us to follow? And the punishment for this is to burn eternally in hell? No almost? No in between? No just straight to hell with you. Love me all or nothing. I am the world's biggest narcissist. In fact, I'm such a narcissist that I invented narcissim!
Trite...foolish and trite...will somebody PLEASE give me a hit of the acid this guy is dropping...
Trite...foolish and trite...will somebody PLEASE give me a hit of the acid this guy is dropping...
Posted: 8/25/2008 10:10 PM PDT
If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent Him.
Voltaire
If God created us in his own image, we have more than reciprocated.
Voltaire
After coming into contact with a religious man I always feel I must wash my hands.
Friedrich Nietzsche
God said, love thy neighbor. Unless he's a muslim, or homosexual, or doesn't go to your church. Then stone him.
Me
Organized religion teaches us to hate those who are not like us. To try and make the "others" conform to our beliefs. This has resulted in at least 8 crusades to "free" the holy land. I'm only counting the medieval crusades. I won't even try to number the wars caused by religious differences. Looked at only from a religious perspective, all wars are about religion. God seems to like to see us kill each other.
Theft is a sin? Against God? God has had his people take by force entire nations, because it was his will. If you broke into my house, I wouldn't consider that a sin. I'd just think you were stupid, while I was calling 911 and the paramedics.
Of course murder is a sin. Unless, God tells you to.
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)
Get the picture? Murder is fine. Assuming you're on the good side of the Lord. Guess you need to slay me. I'll take the she bears please. For I've done nothing worse than those forty-two small boys.
Gossip? A sin? You mean telling stories behind people's backs? I'll agree that is evil, and it hurts the gossiper. A sin is something that hurts yourself. Telling others the confidences of your friends will cost you your friends. You will be forsaken.
Of course, if you stand up in the pulpit and denounce a member of the congregration, that's not gossip. God approves. He must approve. I've been in three churches where members were denounced for their "sins" form the pulpit by the preacher. So that's okay then, eh?
I do love a good argument.
Your rebuttal?
Kelly
Voltaire
If God created us in his own image, we have more than reciprocated.
Voltaire
After coming into contact with a religious man I always feel I must wash my hands.
Friedrich Nietzsche
God said, love thy neighbor. Unless he's a muslim, or homosexual, or doesn't go to your church. Then stone him.
Me
Organized religion teaches us to hate those who are not like us. To try and make the "others" conform to our beliefs. This has resulted in at least 8 crusades to "free" the holy land. I'm only counting the medieval crusades. I won't even try to number the wars caused by religious differences. Looked at only from a religious perspective, all wars are about religion. God seems to like to see us kill each other.
Theft is a sin? Against God? God has had his people take by force entire nations, because it was his will. If you broke into my house, I wouldn't consider that a sin. I'd just think you were stupid, while I was calling 911 and the paramedics.
Of course murder is a sin. Unless, God tells you to.
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)
Get the picture? Murder is fine. Assuming you're on the good side of the Lord. Guess you need to slay me. I'll take the she bears please. For I've done nothing worse than those forty-two small boys.
Gossip? A sin? You mean telling stories behind people's backs? I'll agree that is evil, and it hurts the gossiper. A sin is something that hurts yourself. Telling others the confidences of your friends will cost you your friends. You will be forsaken.
Of course, if you stand up in the pulpit and denounce a member of the congregration, that's not gossip. God approves. He must approve. I've been in three churches where members were denounced for their "sins" form the pulpit by the preacher. So that's okay then, eh?
I do love a good argument.
Your rebuttal?
Kelly
Posted: 8/25/2008 10:22 PM PDT
Modern Christianity is a sin IMO. It makes me glad I am not a Christian. He seems like such a nice man in the stories. It is the fanatacism of many Christians that I abhore.
Palegius was an ascetic monk who lived around 380-418 AD. He believed that we all come to this world in a state of grace and that it is our own responsibility to make peace with our God as best we can given our enviroment. (Simplified version) He was rendered heretic in short order by Augustus of Hippo and others in short order. Reason being that they preached that all men contained original sin and to gain grace they had to go through the preasts (church). The preasts could absolve the masses of sins but they could not absolve themselves. With these teachings they secured the life of the church and gained control of the masses.
I like Pelagius's outlook on things I am in charge of my own spiritual destiny and not a Christian one at that.
Palegius was an ascetic monk who lived around 380-418 AD. He believed that we all come to this world in a state of grace and that it is our own responsibility to make peace with our God as best we can given our enviroment. (Simplified version) He was rendered heretic in short order by Augustus of Hippo and others in short order. Reason being that they preached that all men contained original sin and to gain grace they had to go through the preasts (church). The preasts could absolve the masses of sins but they could not absolve themselves. With these teachings they secured the life of the church and gained control of the masses.
I like Pelagius's outlook on things I am in charge of my own spiritual destiny and not a Christian one at that.
Posted: 8/25/2008 10:30 PM PDT
The message of Jesus Christ was pure love.
The message of the Church (any organized church), is not about love.
I agree with your dead monk.
He was killed because if we can all determine our salvation, the church has no power over us. The "church" craves power like an addict craves his drug.
I believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ. But I won't call myself a "Christian". I believe in the power of love. I believe in faith. I don't believe in hatred.
Kelly
The message of the Church (any organized church), is not about love.
I agree with your dead monk.
He was killed because if we can all determine our salvation, the church has no power over us. The "church" craves power like an addict craves his drug.
I believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ. But I won't call myself a "Christian". I believe in the power of love. I believe in faith. I don't believe in hatred.
Kelly
Posted: 8/25/2008 10:37 PM PDT
No one knows how he died just speculation. The sad part is his writings and teachings went with him except as mentioned by his enemies. These tidbits are enough to wonder but his enemies certainly took him out of context. His name became a curse in many countries for many hundreds of years. His followers were certainly apostate for their beliefs. The Roman Catholic church held all the cards there. It is interesting to note that his influence was in the British Isles and palestine.
Posted: 8/25/2008 10:47 PM PDT
Really? All his teachings we know of were written by his enemies? I thought the New Testament was written by his Disciples?
Were all twelve of them His enemies? I thought it was just Judas who was an enemy to Jesus.
Interesting.
Kelly
Were all twelve of them His enemies? I thought it was just Judas who was an enemy to Jesus.
Interesting.
Kelly
Posted: 8/25/2008 10:49 PM PDT
Soory no still talking of Pelagius the monk. His teachings were probably from the bible and would certainly evolved from the story of Jesus.
Posted: 8/25/2008 10:51 PM PDT
Oops, sorry bout that. I'm used to people going off on a tangent you can't refute to prove stuff.
Pelagius sounds like a rational human being.
No wonder he got hated on.
Kelly
Pelagius sounds like a rational human being.
No wonder he got hated on.
Kelly
Posted: 8/25/2008 10:56 PM PDT
Yea seems that the good die ignoble and the bastards inherit the Earth.
Posted: 8/25/2008 10:59 PM PDT
Based on the evidence around me, I'd say you're 100% right.
The good get screwed, the evil get promotions and raises.
The good get screwed, the evil get promotions and raises.
Posted: 8/25/2008 11:14 PM PDT
That is why I have decided to be bad from now on. Nothing has changed so far I'll let you know if it does.
Posted: 8/25/2008 11:36 PM PDT
If only the good die young, Methuselah must have been one bad dude!
Posted: 8/26/2008 8:57 AM PDT
Dear Kelly,
Pelagius was condemned as heritic by the Church council at Calcedon, or Constantinople; I forget which. I don't necessarily think he was one, but that's what the Church fathers of that time declared. He was the first to deny original sin, and espouse the doctrine of "free will". I can't see it's possibility when the scripture declares: "Satan taketh men captive at his will. and: The carnel (unquickened ) mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be, and the naturan man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness to him, neither can he know them, for they are Spiritually discerned, and In Adam all died, etc. And there are many more scriptures that deny "free will.
God bless you.
Pelagius was condemned as heritic by the Church council at Calcedon, or Constantinople; I forget which. I don't necessarily think he was one, but that's what the Church fathers of that time declared. He was the first to deny original sin, and espouse the doctrine of "free will". I can't see it's possibility when the scripture declares: "Satan taketh men captive at his will. and: The carnel (unquickened ) mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be, and the naturan man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness to him, neither can he know them, for they are Spiritually discerned, and In Adam all died, etc. And there are many more scriptures that deny "free will.
God bless you.
Posted: 8/26/2008 9:05 AM PDT
And there are even more scientists who uphold free will.
Posted: 8/26/2008 9:07 AM PDT
Kelly,
I know our Churches, most of them, are in a sorriful state, but the people in them are spoken of as sheep in scripture for a reason. Sheep are naturally lazy and dumb, and have to be led. The growth in grace takes a lifetime for most. If we would be less critical of them ,and try to enlighten and help them, it would be much better. I'm hoping for a reformation in America as one of my poems (Ninevah or Sodom) indicates.
God bless.
I know our Churches, most of them, are in a sorriful state, but the people in them are spoken of as sheep in scripture for a reason. Sheep are naturally lazy and dumb, and have to be led. The growth in grace takes a lifetime for most. If we would be less critical of them ,and try to enlighten and help them, it would be much better. I'm hoping for a reformation in America as one of my poems (Ninevah or Sodom) indicates.
God bless.
Posted: 8/26/2008 9:19 AM PDT
BStiles,
Then, you seem to be saying that you are the god of BStiles, and only you can save you. You are in agreement with most religions of the world. You are in the majority. There are basically only two religions in this world: The religion of works and the religion of grace. Sadly, some called Christian believe in works - all the others do. Never-the- less, I cannot defend the Catholic church of the middle ages.
God bless you.
Then, you seem to be saying that you are the god of BStiles, and only you can save you. You are in agreement with most religions of the world. You are in the majority. There are basically only two religions in this world: The religion of works and the religion of grace. Sadly, some called Christian believe in works - all the others do. Never-the- less, I cannot defend the Catholic church of the middle ages.
God bless you.
Posted: 8/26/2008 9:47 AM PDT
Here you go Lionel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5JtxrR6msg&feature=user
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atTSwau9fwM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M114bK4qaiM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCpT88Jw-f4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BaGHKe5oi0&feature=user
and I got lots more where that came from.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5JtxrR6msg&feature=user
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atTSwau9fwM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M114bK4qaiM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCpT88Jw-f4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BaGHKe5oi0&feature=user
and I got lots more where that came from.....
Posted: 8/26/2008 12:57 PM PDT
Dear Inkwell,
I understand; you don't believe in GOD ,god, or God, but if you "were" one of those - how would you run things? I think you would spoil the humans rotten, and then be fiery in retribution when they got older and less cute, and showed you no thank-fullness for your former goodness to thim.- right?
Actually, God didn't create man primarily to save or punish him. He (the Trinity) created the world to glorify the Son. ( "The world was made by Him and FOR Him".) Salvation and damnation being incidental to that. Damnation, eternal punishment, eternal destruction; what ever you want to call it, some Christian theologians say is the grave - no burning in hell forever. They say It became a middle ages doctrine to scare people to support the coffers of the Catholic Church. I think they're right If true, it would sure take a load off- don't you think?
God bless you - you meanie.
I understand; you don't believe in GOD ,god, or God, but if you "were" one of those - how would you run things? I think you would spoil the humans rotten, and then be fiery in retribution when they got older and less cute, and showed you no thank-fullness for your former goodness to thim.- right?
Actually, God didn't create man primarily to save or punish him. He (the Trinity) created the world to glorify the Son. ( "The world was made by Him and FOR Him".) Salvation and damnation being incidental to that. Damnation, eternal punishment, eternal destruction; what ever you want to call it, some Christian theologians say is the grave - no burning in hell forever. They say It became a middle ages doctrine to scare people to support the coffers of the Catholic Church. I think they're right If true, it would sure take a load off- don't you think?
God bless you - you meanie.
Posted: 8/26/2008 1:10 PM PDT
NavarCrow,
Sorry I over looked you before.
I don't understand all that above, but I read your former post, and all I can imagine about God destroying the world is; by then, it probably would have served it's Creator's purpose. You wouldn't presume to deny a creator his right to dispose of his own creation as he sees fit? I'm sure he has a patient.
Sorry I over looked you before.
I don't understand all that above, but I read your former post, and all I can imagine about God destroying the world is; by then, it probably would have served it's Creator's purpose. You wouldn't presume to deny a creator his right to dispose of his own creation as he sees fit? I'm sure he has a patient.
Posted: 8/26/2008 1:23 PM PDT
anowalk,
That doesn't supprise me at all. As a matter of fact - I'd be supprised if there weren't.
Stay cool, man.... And God bless you.
That doesn't supprise me at all. As a matter of fact - I'd be supprised if there weren't.
Stay cool, man.... And God bless you.
Posted: 8/26/2008 1:44 PM PDT
I would in fact presume to deny him the right to dispose of your children and mine, but obviously you don't care about your children the way a good father should. A good father would never let anyone "dispose" of his children, like they were some sort of trash. This is precisely why I don't want to have children, becuz' crazies like you will spend every opportunity to tell them that their lives are meaningless in comparison to something that refuses to interact on any real human level. And you believe you have a soul. That's actually kind of funny.
Please just find something else to talk about. You're starting to irritate people.
Please just find something else to talk about. You're starting to irritate people.
Posted: 8/26/2008 3:24 PM PDT
NavarCrow,
Our children are God's children first, and obviously you don't observe very well. You do not have the right to censor me by telling me to find something else to talk about, and you are somewhat irritating too. I respect your right to state your opinion, no matter how off the wall. However, don't you know your name calling and inuendo reveal the weakness of your position?
Our children are God's children first, and obviously you don't observe very well. You do not have the right to censor me by telling me to find something else to talk about, and you are somewhat irritating too. I respect your right to state your opinion, no matter how off the wall. However, don't you know your name calling and inuendo reveal the weakness of your position?
Posted: 8/26/2008 3:44 PM PDT
What world do you live in? That is the state of christianity now. I don't think that being a christian makes you any more morally substantial then the next person. My kids are raised away from the church and I often get compliments on how well behaved they are and I don't dish out any punishments or ultimate punishments like your god does.
And also, the idea that god created humans to be jesus's cheerleading squad is even more disturbing and jacked up then what I previously stated.
So according to you we are only supposed to worship jesus now? But you've been pushing the god thing this whole thread...
And also, the idea that god created humans to be jesus's cheerleading squad is even more disturbing and jacked up then what I previously stated.
So according to you we are only supposed to worship jesus now? But you've been pushing the god thing this whole thread...
Posted: 8/26/2008 5:00 PM PDT
Yeah, NavarCrow, you asshat, don't you know name calling reveals the weakness of your position? I mean it would be different and understandable if you were debating someone who believed in a literal interpretation of a book that's been translated, retranslated and edited by more ppl than you can fit in the Meadowlands until it exists in a perfect sphere of cyclical knowledge and self-validation so that anyone who questioned it would only be met with, "These are God's words," maybe then, maybe, only after you involved the scientific and academic communities to poke holes in the historical and moral claims made within that book, would you be justified in expecting someone to be open-mindedly skeptical, to expect them to say, "You know, you're right, I guess it makes no more sense to take this book literally than it does to take a Dr. Seuss book as such," only after that person persisted in quoting passages from said book rather than addressing any issue raised on a personal level with scientific facts or their own words would you be justified in saying,
"Wow, you are one stupid fuck."
"Wow, you are one stupid fuck."
Posted: 8/26/2008 5:56 PM PDT
Right on! The church is responsible for this because of their silence and apathy. It is the church's responsibility to step up to the plate and stop it. God has given us the warnings and the signs. Babylon is waiting around the corner to take us captive again! Let America please not repeat the mistakes of Ancient Israel has we have been doing for some 30 or 40 odd years now.
Posted: 8/26/2008 9:00 PM PDT
Lionel,
You have surprised me with your need to comment on my spirituality. Sorry I am not a christian but I will try to put this in christian terms. I AM GOD! But, so is all the rest of this reality and all who inhabit it. If the bible is to be believed then the heavens and the earth and all on or in between were created by an act of will. This will being from him means that it is him (simple terms) meaning that all of us are God/part of god. This means that by hurting others we hurt god all sins revolve around this theme in Christianity.
In the end I cannot escape this universe, from it I came and back to it I shall return. So ends the glory of us all.
Ahmen
Brother B.
You have surprised me with your need to comment on my spirituality. Sorry I am not a christian but I will try to put this in christian terms. I AM GOD! But, so is all the rest of this reality and all who inhabit it. If the bible is to be believed then the heavens and the earth and all on or in between were created by an act of will. This will being from him means that it is him (simple terms) meaning that all of us are God/part of god. This means that by hurting others we hurt god all sins revolve around this theme in Christianity.
In the end I cannot escape this universe, from it I came and back to it I shall return. So ends the glory of us all.
Ahmen
Brother B.
Posted: 8/26/2008 9:28 PM PDT
I agree with navarcrow....lionel...you are irritating the hell out of people....Me for example.
Not because you are "really good" at arguing...
Not because I think I am right.
That doesn't annoy me at all.
Actually I love debating, but since you haven't given or taken ground this whole time this isn't really a debate.
More like an argument with down-syndrome.
Arrrgeehakel.....praise god....blearghhh....you're wrong because >Insert random obscure Bible qoute<.....graghhhh....
Wasn't this thread about humanism?
Since when did it turn into a crappy-sort-of-religious bashing?
--I Pronounce this thread dead<--It's been there for a while...just wanted to make it official.--
Not because you are "really good" at arguing...
Not because I think I am right.
That doesn't annoy me at all.
Actually I love debating, but since you haven't given or taken ground this whole time this isn't really a debate.
More like an argument with down-syndrome.
Arrrgeehakel.....praise god....blearghhh....you're wrong because >Insert random obscure Bible qoute<.....graghhhh....
Wasn't this thread about humanism?
Since when did it turn into a crappy-sort-of-religious bashing?
--I Pronounce this thread dead<--It's been there for a while...just wanted to make it official.--
Posted: 8/26/2008 10:22 PM PDT
Lionel, I hope you are right there at the pearly gates when Judgment day comes. Me, I'm pretty sure I'm damned to eternal torture when I die. Oh well <shrug>
Posted: 8/27/2008 4:56 PM PDT
Inkwell, inkwell,
What do you think about humanism? People are getting tired; AND IRRITATED, at all this religion talk.
By the way, if you are looking for a "daddy" cheerleading squad, -- Count me in.
Wooo... I'm getting a little nasty too. Sorry about that.
What do you think about humanism? People are getting tired; AND IRRITATED, at all this religion talk.
By the way, if you are looking for a "daddy" cheerleading squad, -- Count me in.
Wooo... I'm getting a little nasty too. Sorry about that.
Posted: 8/27/2008 5:39 PM PDT
anowalk,
How does man's (natural, and carnel) mind, scientific or academic, have any advantage in dis-cerning things Spiritual? - but to ridicule and dis-reguard what they can't understand, because (1 Cor. 2:14) they are SPIRITUALLY dis-cerned. OOps - I tried to re-inforce my argument again, about God, by using God's word - how foolish of me.
Yes, God's word has been translated, quite a bit, into differant languages, and some "goats" have even "re-interpreted" it - the sheep don't get it wrong. However, you can get a true, God breathed, translation in most every language. The truth and accuracy of the Bible has been proved over and over again by archaelogy, and you should know it. If you don't, you are as much an odd ball in this world as you consider me to be.
By the way, some people on this page want you to stop the religion chat.
.
How does man's (natural, and carnel) mind, scientific or academic, have any advantage in dis-cerning things Spiritual? - but to ridicule and dis-reguard what they can't understand, because (1 Cor. 2:14) they are SPIRITUALLY dis-cerned. OOps - I tried to re-inforce my argument again, about God, by using God's word - how foolish of me.
Yes, God's word has been translated, quite a bit, into differant languages, and some "goats" have even "re-interpreted" it - the sheep don't get it wrong. However, you can get a true, God breathed, translation in most every language. The truth and accuracy of the Bible has been proved over and over again by archaelogy, and you should know it. If you don't, you are as much an odd ball in this world as you consider me to be.
By the way, some people on this page want you to stop the religion chat.
.
Posted: 8/27/2008 5:51 PM PDT
BStiles,
If you are not a Christian, you are going to fail in your attempt at Christian terming.
And watch your religious talk - people will attempt to censor you. Not many here believe in academic freedom; or just freedom of speech. -That is, unless you are academically correct.
If you are not a Christian, you are going to fail in your attempt at Christian terming.
And watch your religious talk - people will attempt to censor you. Not many here believe in academic freedom; or just freedom of speech. -That is, unless you are academically correct.
Posted: 8/27/2008 6:04 PM PDT
Lionel wrote the following post at 8/27/2008 05:51 PM PT
BStiles,
If you are not a Christian, you are going to fail in your attempt at Christian terming.
And watch your religious talk - people will attempt to censor you. Not many here believe in academic freedom; or just freedom of speech. -That is, unless you are academically correct.
Well Lionel last I checked you were not walking in my shoes. My experiences in life aside how could you know I would "fail" at anything? If I failed to communicate to you it seems that you have given up, quit trying a very Christian thing to do when faced with the unknown. The non resistive superior tone of your posts tells a tale or maybe it shows your tail. It does not really matter to me or any for that matter if you have a message here maybe you shoult try spitting it out. If you are incapable of said spitting for some reason perhaps listening will be more appropriate for you.
You are on your own path and the more lost you feel the less lost you are. I to am not lost.
BStiles,
If you are not a Christian, you are going to fail in your attempt at Christian terming.
And watch your religious talk - people will attempt to censor you. Not many here believe in academic freedom; or just freedom of speech. -That is, unless you are academically correct.
Well Lionel last I checked you were not walking in my shoes. My experiences in life aside how could you know I would "fail" at anything? If I failed to communicate to you it seems that you have given up, quit trying a very Christian thing to do when faced with the unknown. The non resistive superior tone of your posts tells a tale or maybe it shows your tail. It does not really matter to me or any for that matter if you have a message here maybe you shoult try spitting it out. If you are incapable of said spitting for some reason perhaps listening will be more appropriate for you.
You are on your own path and the more lost you feel the less lost you are. I to am not lost.
Posted: 8/27/2008 6:05 PM PDT
Count Vlad,
I'm sorry, Your Grace, I didn't know royalty was tuning in. Sir, I must inform you that this thread is about humanism, and you only mentioned - "this thred is about humanism", and said no more about humanism, but began to bash what you erroneously saw as a crappy sort of religious bashing. God save Your Highness, amen.
I'm sorry, Your Grace, I didn't know royalty was tuning in. Sir, I must inform you that this thread is about humanism, and you only mentioned - "this thred is about humanism", and said no more about humanism, but began to bash what you erroneously saw as a crappy sort of religious bashing. God save Your Highness, amen.
Posted: 8/27/2008 6:45 PM PDT
HorrorPunk,
I went through a period of conviction; about thirty years or more, of thinking I had no hope of redemption Then, I began to see enough change in me, and enough light about the veracity of God's promises to gain a measure of assurance. Being such a miserable sinner all my young life, and, even now - in old age - still coming short of the mark; I've come to wholely trust Christ as my redeamer. It's been a journey of mountain tops and valleys. Looking back: The valleys (tribulation) have been a better help to my spiritual growth than the mountain tops (blessings).
At the risk of being executed: 1 Cor. 1:26 thru 29 :
For you see your calling, breathren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise, and the weak things to confound the mighty; and base things of the world and things that are despised, hath God chosen yea, and things that are not, to bring to nought the things that are: that no flesh should glory in his presence. ( The no. one thing God hates is: " A proud look".)
Blessed are the meek, humble, peace makers, etc.
God bless you.
I went through a period of conviction; about thirty years or more, of thinking I had no hope of redemption Then, I began to see enough change in me, and enough light about the veracity of God's promises to gain a measure of assurance. Being such a miserable sinner all my young life, and, even now - in old age - still coming short of the mark; I've come to wholely trust Christ as my redeamer. It's been a journey of mountain tops and valleys. Looking back: The valleys (tribulation) have been a better help to my spiritual growth than the mountain tops (blessings).
At the risk of being executed: 1 Cor. 1:26 thru 29 :
For you see your calling, breathren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise, and the weak things to confound the mighty; and base things of the world and things that are despised, hath God chosen yea, and things that are not, to bring to nought the things that are: that no flesh should glory in his presence. ( The no. one thing God hates is: " A proud look".)
Blessed are the meek, humble, peace makers, etc.
God bless you.
Posted: 8/27/2008 6:55 PM PDT
BStiles,
Forgive me. I let myself get drawn into satiric banter. I'll try to leave that to my antagonists from now on.
Forgive me. I let myself get drawn into satiric banter. I'll try to leave that to my antagonists from now on.
Posted: 8/27/2008 8:14 PM PDT
Oh brother where art thou? You have antagonist you say? Well mix some pine pitch and some turpintine with some plug tobacco and some lemon peel. Apply mixture to your groin and rub vigorously. This ought to get rid of them pesky antagonists. If that don't work try lighting it on fire. Won't do much but it sure will be lively for a spell.
Take a deep breath and quit being so serious dude. (Dude: cowboy slang for an erect horse penis) Taking yourself too serious may result in catastrophic failure of the intended purpose of your life.
Take a deep breath and quit being so serious dude. (Dude: cowboy slang for an erect horse penis) Taking yourself too serious may result in catastrophic failure of the intended purpose of your life.
Posted: 8/28/2008 8:15 AM PDT
Oh Lionel, you silly foot-tapping, lick-smacking conundrum of a man.
Things from the Bible that archaelogy has never proven:
The Garden of Eden and pretty much the entire Genesis story. Evolution=booyah.
Noah's ark or any evidence that at one point a flood killed every person on the planet except those on the funky boat.
The tower of Babel as the explanation for all languages.
King David slaying a giant dude with a sling (but yeah, pretty sweet story regardless).
Lazarus being raised from the dead.
Jesus being raised from the dead.
Jesus being immaculately conceived.
Jesus as the Son of God.
The 40 years the Jews spent wandering the desert after Mose lead them from Egypt. (40 years?!? I could walk across that entire desert in four days!)
Methusala living to be 800 or whatever wacky number they picked.
The temptations of Christ in the desert (hallucinations).
I know I'm forgetting some, but it's been weeks since I've picked up my Bible.
Things from the Bible that archaelogy has never proven:
The Garden of Eden and pretty much the entire Genesis story. Evolution=booyah.
Noah's ark or any evidence that at one point a flood killed every person on the planet except those on the funky boat.
The tower of Babel as the explanation for all languages.
King David slaying a giant dude with a sling (but yeah, pretty sweet story regardless).
Lazarus being raised from the dead.
Jesus being raised from the dead.
Jesus being immaculately conceived.
Jesus as the Son of God.
The 40 years the Jews spent wandering the desert after Mose lead them from Egypt. (40 years?!? I could walk across that entire desert in four days!)
Methusala living to be 800 or whatever wacky number they picked.
The temptations of Christ in the desert (hallucinations).
I know I'm forgetting some, but it's been weeks since I've picked up my Bible.
Posted: 8/28/2008 8:30 AM PDT
I'm done with this one. Lionel you keep saying "God's words and God says this and God wants us to do that." The last time I checked God hasn't SAID a single word. He hasn't come down from heaven and given a speach on how we're fucking up. Hell he hasn't even smited someone or burned a bush in millenia.
Some high on natrual herb assholes sometime after we crawled out of caves decided wouldn't it be nice to control people and they did a fine ass job of saying, here's what GOD wants you to do. And the few people who asked back then "Well how do you know?" were too dumb to dispute them when they said "cause GOD told me. I was imbuded with his spirit." This is code for I ate a shroom and I was trippin but I got this fucking awesome idea. And I'm not being an ass about this so much as going on historical facts. Drugs were used to induce euphoric states so that oracles could commune with the Gods. Known fact.
If this happened in today's society we'd laugh our asses off at them.
Lionel: If you got really high and thought God spoke and he said "Lionel, I think you should write a book and it should be my new bible" Would you run around telling people? No, because you WERE HIGH!!!! People on drugs do stupid shit and say stupider shit and just in general have no ideal what they're talking about.
My brother once told me that he thought the lamp had told him the meaning of life, but damnit if he couldn't remember after he sobered up. A LAMP, for FUCK SAKE.
Some high on natrual herb assholes sometime after we crawled out of caves decided wouldn't it be nice to control people and they did a fine ass job of saying, here's what GOD wants you to do. And the few people who asked back then "Well how do you know?" were too dumb to dispute them when they said "cause GOD told me. I was imbuded with his spirit." This is code for I ate a shroom and I was trippin but I got this fucking awesome idea. And I'm not being an ass about this so much as going on historical facts. Drugs were used to induce euphoric states so that oracles could commune with the Gods. Known fact.
If this happened in today's society we'd laugh our asses off at them.
Lionel: If you got really high and thought God spoke and he said "Lionel, I think you should write a book and it should be my new bible" Would you run around telling people? No, because you WERE HIGH!!!! People on drugs do stupid shit and say stupider shit and just in general have no ideal what they're talking about.
My brother once told me that he thought the lamp had told him the meaning of life, but damnit if he couldn't remember after he sobered up. A LAMP, for FUCK SAKE.
Posted: 8/28/2008 8:45 AM PDT
Anowalk, not to bug this out on you, but there was a great flood in history, more than likely two (Noah, ark no not historically proven) Flood yes. Every culture throughout history in their Mythologies (the bible being included in those tomes) has a story about the flood. We'll certainly have one again one day since as the Earth adjusts and moves orbit and we generally just F up the planet the ice caps will melt and the geography will change again.
The last real geographically changing flood happened around 1400BC with the eruption of a volcano near Santorini (Greece).
Oh, shit if you want the history lesson here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_eruption
It was pretty sucktastic. Basically, this volcano erupts and has the power of 3 nuclear bombs behind it. It sends up tsunamis and wipes out alot of land that we will probably not see resurface in our lifetime. Changes the entire coast line of anchient Greece.
The last real geographically changing flood happened around 1400BC with the eruption of a volcano near Santorini (Greece).
Oh, shit if you want the history lesson here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_eruption
It was pretty sucktastic. Basically, this volcano erupts and has the power of 3 nuclear bombs behind it. It sends up tsunamis and wipes out alot of land that we will probably not see resurface in our lifetime. Changes the entire coast line of anchient Greece.
Posted: 8/28/2008 8:47 AM PDT
Si, si.
But A flood does not prove THE flood.
But A flood does not prove THE flood.
Posted: 8/28/2008 9:08 AM PDT
I admit to being a little bit scared of the hardcore Christians that hold Noah's Ark as fact!
Well, seeing as how they have actually found the Ark (on Mt. Ararat), and that there is historical and scientific evidence of a massive flood...
Well, seeing as how they have actually found the Ark (on Mt. Ararat), and that there is historical and scientific evidence of a massive flood...
Posted: 8/28/2008 9:29 AM PDT
An ark doesn't mean it's Noah's ark. They did not prove that.
A massive flood does not mean it's The Flood that covered the entire world. They did not prove that either.
A massive flood does not mean it's The Flood that covered the entire world. They did not prove that either.
Posted: 8/28/2008 9:30 AM PDT
oops. I meant to put that first sentence in qoutes...sorry.
Posted: 8/28/2008 9:43 AM PDT
"An ark doesn't mean it's Noah's ark. They did not prove that.
A massive flood does not mean it's The Flood that covered the entire world. They did not prove that either. "
They have proven that it was basically in the right dimensions and definitely made of the materials mentioned in the Bible...gopher wood primarily.
Admittedly, there is some conjecture that the flood of history we are discussing may have only covered a portion of the earth. All we really know is the distance a bird could fly was the distance of the coverage. If you buy that theory that is. Christianity is a walk of faith. It takes faith in the unknown and the unseen to believe. That is the whole basis of both Judaism and Christianity, you must have faith to please God. Seriously, logically speaking, does it not take more faith to believe God does not exist, than to believe He does? Look around you and just think about the perfection of God's work. Man cannot create a human body. Only God can. Yes, we have to mate in order to make a new life, but man cannot make a soul or possibly have designed the human body...otherwise we would have no disease or frailty.
Some Christians truly have faith, others do not. I cannot judge that, only God can. Some Christians have had a true experience of God. Some have a vibrant, living, RELATIONSHIP with God, rather than empty religion and ritual. If you seek God, you can and will find Him. But you've got to do it with all your heart.
A massive flood does not mean it's The Flood that covered the entire world. They did not prove that either. "
They have proven that it was basically in the right dimensions and definitely made of the materials mentioned in the Bible...gopher wood primarily.
Admittedly, there is some conjecture that the flood of history we are discussing may have only covered a portion of the earth. All we really know is the distance a bird could fly was the distance of the coverage. If you buy that theory that is. Christianity is a walk of faith. It takes faith in the unknown and the unseen to believe. That is the whole basis of both Judaism and Christianity, you must have faith to please God. Seriously, logically speaking, does it not take more faith to believe God does not exist, than to believe He does? Look around you and just think about the perfection of God's work. Man cannot create a human body. Only God can. Yes, we have to mate in order to make a new life, but man cannot make a soul or possibly have designed the human body...otherwise we would have no disease or frailty.
Some Christians truly have faith, others do not. I cannot judge that, only God can. Some Christians have had a true experience of God. Some have a vibrant, living, RELATIONSHIP with God, rather than empty religion and ritual. If you seek God, you can and will find Him. But you've got to do it with all your heart.
Posted: 8/28/2008 9:48 AM PDT
DerekG, by your theory we should all believe in the tooth fairy and santa claus because their existance is proven by the appearance of money under your pillow and gift wrapped boxes under the tree.
Posted: 8/28/2008 10:00 AM PDT
I have no problem with people of faith.
I have a problem with people who try to defend literal interpretations of texts by claiming they're "protected" by god. First, literal interpretations are intrinsically flawed. Language isn't meant to only work literally. Second, to believe that the Bible hasn't been changed or altered throughout all these years, through all the people who have handled it b/c of divine intervention is naive.
I have a problem with people who try to defend literal interpretations of texts by claiming they're "protected" by god. First, literal interpretations are intrinsically flawed. Language isn't meant to only work literally. Second, to believe that the Bible hasn't been changed or altered throughout all these years, through all the people who have handled it b/c of divine intervention is naive.
Posted: 8/28/2008 11:23 AM PDT
"DerekG, by your theory we should all believe in the tooth fairy and santa claus because their existance is proven by the appearance of money under your pillow and gift wrapped boxes under the tree. "
Well, in a sense, that is the very essence of child-like faith that the Bible implores us to have, but that is sorely lacking in the modern church. Believe it or not, you understand exactly what I am saying, but are taking what I said too literally. I never said to check your brain at the door, but study to show yourself approved.
Well, in a sense, that is the very essence of child-like faith that the Bible implores us to have, but that is sorely lacking in the modern church. Believe it or not, you understand exactly what I am saying, but are taking what I said too literally. I never said to check your brain at the door, but study to show yourself approved.
Posted: 8/28/2008 11:58 AM PDT
Anowalk,
What most people don't understand about the Bible is that it is a piece of literature. It IS the inspired word of God as originally written...which is mostly Hebrew with a dash of Aramaic. Even the New Testament was translated from Hebrew to Greek and then into English. We are so far from the cultural it was written to, and the language it was written in, it is no wonder we don't understand the Bible. Much of the Bible is Hebrew Poetry and idiomatic expressions known as "Hebraisms".
For example, suppose I made a statement to you that used several southern expressions, like "Ya'll come back now he'ya?" Suppose you never heard this before and didn't fully comprehend its meaning. Now you decide you think you know what I said..."Yaw come back now he yah". Now, you repeat this to someone from say, Spain or Mexico who translates it into Spanish with the best equivelent words and expressions. They then translate it for a German friend, who then translates it back into English. Now, what is the statement going to look like? Certainly not " You all come back now, hear?"! There we have the modern English Bible, still God's Words, but not the same meaning or context.
Interestingly, when the New Testament is reverse translated from Greek back to Hebrew, guess what? It makes perfect sense and takes on a whole new light, now that the Hebraisms, idiomatic expressions and Hebrew Poetry (Doublets, typically) have been added back in and you have been taught to understand the Hebrew mindset. You have re-established the original meaning and context. Contradictions disappear, questions are answered and everything makes sense.
I will grant you that the translators could have mis-interpreted some things due to this very issue of subtle shades of meaning being lost in translation. It was unintentional as my example should illustrate. This is especially true when a translator tries to "help" the reader by adding words for "clarification" based on a mis-translation.
So please don't be so quick to dismiss the validity and Divine Inspiration of the Bible.
What most people don't understand about the Bible is that it is a piece of literature. It IS the inspired word of God as originally written...which is mostly Hebrew with a dash of Aramaic. Even the New Testament was translated from Hebrew to Greek and then into English. We are so far from the cultural it was written to, and the language it was written in, it is no wonder we don't understand the Bible. Much of the Bible is Hebrew Poetry and idiomatic expressions known as "Hebraisms".
For example, suppose I made a statement to you that used several southern expressions, like "Ya'll come back now he'ya?" Suppose you never heard this before and didn't fully comprehend its meaning. Now you decide you think you know what I said..."Yaw come back now he yah". Now, you repeat this to someone from say, Spain or Mexico who translates it into Spanish with the best equivelent words and expressions. They then translate it for a German friend, who then translates it back into English. Now, what is the statement going to look like? Certainly not " You all come back now, hear?"! There we have the modern English Bible, still God's Words, but not the same meaning or context.
Interestingly, when the New Testament is reverse translated from Greek back to Hebrew, guess what? It makes perfect sense and takes on a whole new light, now that the Hebraisms, idiomatic expressions and Hebrew Poetry (Doublets, typically) have been added back in and you have been taught to understand the Hebrew mindset. You have re-established the original meaning and context. Contradictions disappear, questions are answered and everything makes sense.
I will grant you that the translators could have mis-interpreted some things due to this very issue of subtle shades of meaning being lost in translation. It was unintentional as my example should illustrate. This is especially true when a translator tries to "help" the reader by adding words for "clarification" based on a mis-translation.
So please don't be so quick to dismiss the validity and Divine Inspiration of the Bible.
Posted: 8/28/2008 3:08 PM PDT
To all my friends on this thread. ( I hope I can call you friends. ) I really did enjoy reading you today.
Actually, there are many more archiological proofs of the veracity of the Bible than the flood and remnants of Noah's ark. Ruins of many of the cities mentioned in the Bible have been found. Have you ever watched the Naked archiologist on T. V. ?
But, the most convincing proof for me of the authority of Holy scripture is what it pronounces about mankind: That he is basically bad ("let nothing be said about faith in man; but bind him down with the chains of the constitution). The atheistic, Communist dogma held that man was basically good. We've expearienced the result of that belief. When God quickens a man back to spiritual life (ye must be born again - ye hath he quickened), a battle begins in his heart: the spirit against the flesh, and the flesh against the spirit. Before that happened to me, I was at peace with myself in self -serving my desires and emotions (sin). Also convincing is what Christ said: Love your enemies, do good to them who persecute you, pray for them who spitefully use you: and then, from the cross: Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do. That idea was, before his advent, unconcieved of in all human history. That doctrine goes against all natural man's reason. There are many other proofs to me in scripture, byt I'll quit for now.
God bless you all, I pray.
Actually, there are many more archiological proofs of the veracity of the Bible than the flood and remnants of Noah's ark. Ruins of many of the cities mentioned in the Bible have been found. Have you ever watched the Naked archiologist on T. V. ?
But, the most convincing proof for me of the authority of Holy scripture is what it pronounces about mankind: That he is basically bad ("let nothing be said about faith in man; but bind him down with the chains of the constitution). The atheistic, Communist dogma held that man was basically good. We've expearienced the result of that belief. When God quickens a man back to spiritual life (ye must be born again - ye hath he quickened), a battle begins in his heart: the spirit against the flesh, and the flesh against the spirit. Before that happened to me, I was at peace with myself in self -serving my desires and emotions (sin). Also convincing is what Christ said: Love your enemies, do good to them who persecute you, pray for them who spitefully use you: and then, from the cross: Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do. That idea was, before his advent, unconcieved of in all human history. That doctrine goes against all natural man's reason. There are many other proofs to me in scripture, byt I'll quit for now.
God bless you all, I pray.
Posted: 8/28/2008 4:16 PM PDT
Now that is what I am talking about just relax and let some more jokes out you will be right as rain in a while. :)
Posted: 8/28/2008 5:57 PM PDT
God has never spoken to me, or anyone else I know.
the Bible is a collection of myths and stories passed down, written and rewritten. It is commonly known the that "bible" as we know it is only a portion of the original transcripts, many of which were not included in the final draft as decided by the Catholic Church. There are grains of truth in the bible. However, it is no more trustworthy than any other culture's myths and legends. It could be turtles all the way down, for all I know. I've never seen why the Bible is any more truthful or convincing than other similar records from different cultures. To listen to an ancient, mistake-riddled book of legends as the ultimate truth is absolutely absurd. Have we no brains?
I believe in free will. If there were no free will, then God would, in effect, be making us sin if we did. If I hit my padres, apparently I should be put to death. But God would have made me hit them, if there's no free will. And that means that God wanted me to die.
Sick bastard.
I'm not buying any of this religion crap. It's so full of holes you could use it for a sieve. I could poke holes in the "logic" all day long, mainly because there is no logic. There's just "have faith, Believe," blah blah blah. Now, if God invented EVERYTHING, that means he invented: sin, murder, LOGIC, marijuana, rape, psycho dickheads, and made sex awesome.
If he invented the universe, wouldn't he want us to understand it? What is this "it's not out place to understand"? Seriously. If he made it, you should probably assume that he wants us to learn about it.
One more point. The whole Jesus' cheerleading squad? Pathetic. If it's true, he sounds like a jealous (oh, wait, he told us he was jealous already) little bastard with a serious self-esteem problem.
If there is a God, it is absolutely nothing like the God that is portrayed in Christianity. If he is such a vengeful little asshat, I think all of us are fucked for eternity. And from his POV, that would be a bit counterproductive.
that is all. I'm done for now.
the Bible is a collection of myths and stories passed down, written and rewritten. It is commonly known the that "bible" as we know it is only a portion of the original transcripts, many of which were not included in the final draft as decided by the Catholic Church. There are grains of truth in the bible. However, it is no more trustworthy than any other culture's myths and legends. It could be turtles all the way down, for all I know. I've never seen why the Bible is any more truthful or convincing than other similar records from different cultures. To listen to an ancient, mistake-riddled book of legends as the ultimate truth is absolutely absurd. Have we no brains?
I believe in free will. If there were no free will, then God would, in effect, be making us sin if we did. If I hit my padres, apparently I should be put to death. But God would have made me hit them, if there's no free will. And that means that God wanted me to die.
Sick bastard.
I'm not buying any of this religion crap. It's so full of holes you could use it for a sieve. I could poke holes in the "logic" all day long, mainly because there is no logic. There's just "have faith, Believe," blah blah blah. Now, if God invented EVERYTHING, that means he invented: sin, murder, LOGIC, marijuana, rape, psycho dickheads, and made sex awesome.
If he invented the universe, wouldn't he want us to understand it? What is this "it's not out place to understand"? Seriously. If he made it, you should probably assume that he wants us to learn about it.
One more point. The whole Jesus' cheerleading squad? Pathetic. If it's true, he sounds like a jealous (oh, wait, he told us he was jealous already) little bastard with a serious self-esteem problem.
If there is a God, it is absolutely nothing like the God that is portrayed in Christianity. If he is such a vengeful little asshat, I think all of us are fucked for eternity. And from his POV, that would be a bit counterproductive.
that is all. I'm done for now.
Posted: 8/28/2008 7:55 PM PDT
Maybe you have never been around a Holy Spirit-filled believer before, that actually loves God, has a relationship with God and lives a righteous lifestyle by choice, and sacrificially at that. God has spoken to me, not audibly, but He HAS spoken and many other people I know as well.
Where did you get your warped viewpoint of God? It is true that God is a just God and justice was certainly served in the Old Testament. Justice demands punishment for breaking the law. However, when Yeshua died on the cross, he became the punishment for our transgressions of the law, he also became our advocate...our attorney so to speak.
We cannot blame the Roman church for manuscripts being lost over time. The Roman government, perhaps. They intentionally destroyed records and documents in 70 AD...BEFORE the Roman Catholic church was ever envisioned. I think you need to brush up on your Bible History a bit.
As for brains? I have plenty. I know what I have seen and heard and felt. I went to Bible College with a clean slate. I forgot everything I was ever taught and went in to study what the BIble says to believe, not to pull stuff out to support what I already believed. Even with an open mind, I became more convinced the Bible was truth and accurate. Therefore, I have done, and continue to do, Academic study. The more I learn, the more I learn what I don't know...but I also understand it mucg better as time goes by. Head knowledge is not enough, you must have HEART knowledge...and that is where the disconnect often comes in and causes doubt and fear.
God did not invent sin, or murder, or rape, etc. He made free will and free will created sin, etc. by the choice of humans...against the desires and warnings of God. And yes, God did invent sex, and yes it is awesome. But there are rules put in place for our protection and well being, that when followed make it so much better and more fulfilling. God also created the planet and everything it (physically speaking). Marijuana is one of those things. What we choose to do with it, and the results of that action is what determines if it is good or bad. It is merely an herb and neutral. It is there for or use or abuse...the choice is ours which it will be, and no one else's. Same with all that other stuff. Someone chooses to rape another, or murder, or steal. They WILL pay the consequences of their actions at some point in time. Neither God, nor Satan, made them do it. They did it of their own volition.
Where did you get your warped viewpoint of God? It is true that God is a just God and justice was certainly served in the Old Testament. Justice demands punishment for breaking the law. However, when Yeshua died on the cross, he became the punishment for our transgressions of the law, he also became our advocate...our attorney so to speak.
We cannot blame the Roman church for manuscripts being lost over time. The Roman government, perhaps. They intentionally destroyed records and documents in 70 AD...BEFORE the Roman Catholic church was ever envisioned. I think you need to brush up on your Bible History a bit.
As for brains? I have plenty. I know what I have seen and heard and felt. I went to Bible College with a clean slate. I forgot everything I was ever taught and went in to study what the BIble says to believe, not to pull stuff out to support what I already believed. Even with an open mind, I became more convinced the Bible was truth and accurate. Therefore, I have done, and continue to do, Academic study. The more I learn, the more I learn what I don't know...but I also understand it mucg better as time goes by. Head knowledge is not enough, you must have HEART knowledge...and that is where the disconnect often comes in and causes doubt and fear.
God did not invent sin, or murder, or rape, etc. He made free will and free will created sin, etc. by the choice of humans...against the desires and warnings of God. And yes, God did invent sex, and yes it is awesome. But there are rules put in place for our protection and well being, that when followed make it so much better and more fulfilling. God also created the planet and everything it (physically speaking). Marijuana is one of those things. What we choose to do with it, and the results of that action is what determines if it is good or bad. It is merely an herb and neutral. It is there for or use or abuse...the choice is ours which it will be, and no one else's. Same with all that other stuff. Someone chooses to rape another, or murder, or steal. They WILL pay the consequences of their actions at some point in time. Neither God, nor Satan, made them do it. They did it of their own volition.
Posted: 8/28/2008 11:35 PM PDT
DerekG - A minor correction, if I may. I'm certain that if you check a bit, you will find that the New Testament was most assuredly penned in the literate language of the day -Koine Greek.
If not, then generations of Bible linguists have been mistaken since using Erasmus as an authority and the Textus Receptus for the early Reformation English translations. We have today, much older and more definitive Koine Greek papyri than was available in the 1500's when Constantinople fell to the Muslims and the Eastern Greek Churchmen fled into Western Europe with the knowledge of the Greek underlying the Catholic Latin Vulgate Bible that was then in use.
respectfully offered,
`g
If not, then generations of Bible linguists have been mistaken since using Erasmus as an authority and the Textus Receptus for the early Reformation English translations. We have today, much older and more definitive Koine Greek papyri than was available in the 1500's when Constantinople fell to the Muslims and the Eastern Greek Churchmen fled into Western Europe with the knowledge of the Greek underlying the Catholic Latin Vulgate Bible that was then in use.
respectfully offered,
`g
Posted: 8/29/2008 2:02 AM PDT
Okay Lionel.
Let me tell you about myself. I am 18, I grew up as a "Jesus-Freak," was even a part-time worship leader/lead vocalist for three years, believed in speaking in tongues and prophets (basically the whole deal package)
I am no longer Christian. Haven't been for about a year and a half. The reason for this 180 degree change? Well, there are really many factors, but the two main two: Christians aren't very nice people; in fact, they are hypocritical, strong willed, argumentative baffoons (i.e. how you have come off on this forum); the second reason: Christianity doesn't make much sense
You purposefully posted this forum to force people to react - i.e. you knew people had very heated opinions on this topic. This isn't so bad, because I suppose you can say you wanted to bring them into a conversation about Christ to hopefully educate them into loving him aswell
However, you have not shown the mercy of Christ, you have not displayed the love of the Creator, and you most certainly haven't been very nice.
You make spiteful remarks that try to not break down the arguments of the atheists, but rather the people themselves (which, trust me, Jesus would NEVER have done) You then do a cover up with a "God bless you," making yourself look (excuse the term) like a complete ass who is a little self-righteous.
Jesus would not write a blatant slap-in-your-face forum topic to people who almost definatly will never become Christians. The man had little time and focused his energy on the people who would listen.
He would not have argued with the people in this forum. He rarely argued at all, if you noticed (except with of course*drum roll* the Church leaders of his day who would constantly be bringing up doctrine and griping about sin with him [sound familiar?])
In fact, if Jesus was a Webooker, the most likeliest place you would find him would be giving feedback, telling people he loved their writing style and why oh why were they so sad? He would be the guy who would ask you how your day was, he would be the guy who, when you felt compelled into adding him as a friend, would thank you and tell you "God bless" at the end of his emails until finally one day you would turn and maybe ask him about it.
If your goal truly is to bring more lost sheep into salvation, take a hint from your god: don't be an asshole.
Let me tell you about myself. I am 18, I grew up as a "Jesus-Freak," was even a part-time worship leader/lead vocalist for three years, believed in speaking in tongues and prophets (basically the whole deal package)
I am no longer Christian. Haven't been for about a year and a half. The reason for this 180 degree change? Well, there are really many factors, but the two main two: Christians aren't very nice people; in fact, they are hypocritical, strong willed, argumentative baffoons (i.e. how you have come off on this forum); the second reason: Christianity doesn't make much sense
You purposefully posted this forum to force people to react - i.e. you knew people had very heated opinions on this topic. This isn't so bad, because I suppose you can say you wanted to bring them into a conversation about Christ to hopefully educate them into loving him aswell
However, you have not shown the mercy of Christ, you have not displayed the love of the Creator, and you most certainly haven't been very nice.
You make spiteful remarks that try to not break down the arguments of the atheists, but rather the people themselves (which, trust me, Jesus would NEVER have done) You then do a cover up with a "God bless you," making yourself look (excuse the term) like a complete ass who is a little self-righteous.
Jesus would not write a blatant slap-in-your-face forum topic to people who almost definatly will never become Christians. The man had little time and focused his energy on the people who would listen.
He would not have argued with the people in this forum. He rarely argued at all, if you noticed (except with of course*drum roll* the Church leaders of his day who would constantly be bringing up doctrine and griping about sin with him [sound familiar?])
In fact, if Jesus was a Webooker, the most likeliest place you would find him would be giving feedback, telling people he loved their writing style and why oh why were they so sad? He would be the guy who would ask you how your day was, he would be the guy who, when you felt compelled into adding him as a friend, would thank you and tell you "God bless" at the end of his emails until finally one day you would turn and maybe ask him about it.
If your goal truly is to bring more lost sheep into salvation, take a hint from your god: don't be an asshole.
Posted: 8/29/2008 2:36 AM PDT
Not all Christians are bad people.
You get bad people who are of any religion.
But yeah, Lionel has taken this one step too far. Put the meds down now, and apologise, and then I can watch Levi punch you and we can all be friends. Okay?
Vaseline?
;D
You get bad people who are of any religion.
But yeah, Lionel has taken this one step too far. Put the meds down now, and apologise, and then I can watch Levi punch you and we can all be friends. Okay?
Vaseline?
;D
Posted: 8/29/2008 2:51 AM PDT
gonzodave,
That is a common belief that is being challenged by many scholars in Jerusalem. They are discovering that Hebrew and Aramaic were the primary languages spoken, and the scriptures were most likely penned in Hebrew, prior to being translated to Greek. Matthew is referred to specifically by several of the Church Fathers as being originally in Hebrew. The Dead Sea scrolls have also shed much light on this in recent years. I would even go so far as to say that Paul was likely the only Apostle fluent in Both Greek and Hebrew. Hebrew was the common language of the Jewish people, and Greek tended to be the scholarly language, used by the more educated and upper class people. I realize there is much debate in Christian and Jewish circles over this very issue, but I am convinced by the evidence that has been presented to me that Hebrew is the original language of all scripture and even the language spoken by the entire world prior to the Tower of Babel.
Really, the issue is, Greek or not, You have to view all of scripture from a Hebraic viewpoint. Period. The Greco-Roman (Western) way of thinking is entirely different than the Hebraic (Mid-Eastern) way of thinking. We have been looking through the wrong lens for 2000 years, plain and simple. At least as far back as the 3rd Century, if not earlier. Circa 150 AD is when things started getting twisted out of context and began to change the way we viewed and interpreted God's Word. I personally find the Septuagint (LXX) to be a travesty and the beginning of the situation we now find ourselves in. Doctrines of men added onto issues of adding to and taking away from God's Word as it pleased men coupled with mutliple language translation errors has brought us to the Post-Modern Secular Humanism point of view that the Bible is myth and stories, none of which are to be taken literally that we are now debating.
I will point out again that the Latin Vulgate was a translation from Greek into Latin, that was translated from the Hebrew. The Latin was then translated into German which was then translated into English. Can you see my point of how mucked up the whole mess has become? What we call "Christianity" is NOT the ekklesia that Yeshua established. They were ALL Hebrew men, carrying on a Hebrew religious and spiritual system that was established at Mt. Sinai. The only difference being that He did away with the Ceremonial and Civil Law, but left the Moral Law intact...that has never changed nor been abolished by any member of the Godhead. The sooner everyone realizes that, the better off this world will be. Knowledge is increasing in these Last Days at a rapid pace, if we don't keep up, we will be swept away in the aftermath.
Respectfully,
Derek
<steps off soapbox>
That is a common belief that is being challenged by many scholars in Jerusalem. They are discovering that Hebrew and Aramaic were the primary languages spoken, and the scriptures were most likely penned in Hebrew, prior to being translated to Greek. Matthew is referred to specifically by several of the Church Fathers as being originally in Hebrew. The Dead Sea scrolls have also shed much light on this in recent years. I would even go so far as to say that Paul was likely the only Apostle fluent in Both Greek and Hebrew. Hebrew was the common language of the Jewish people, and Greek tended to be the scholarly language, used by the more educated and upper class people. I realize there is much debate in Christian and Jewish circles over this very issue, but I am convinced by the evidence that has been presented to me that Hebrew is the original language of all scripture and even the language spoken by the entire world prior to the Tower of Babel.
Really, the issue is, Greek or not, You have to view all of scripture from a Hebraic viewpoint. Period. The Greco-Roman (Western) way of thinking is entirely different than the Hebraic (Mid-Eastern) way of thinking. We have been looking through the wrong lens for 2000 years, plain and simple. At least as far back as the 3rd Century, if not earlier. Circa 150 AD is when things started getting twisted out of context and began to change the way we viewed and interpreted God's Word. I personally find the Septuagint (LXX) to be a travesty and the beginning of the situation we now find ourselves in. Doctrines of men added onto issues of adding to and taking away from God's Word as it pleased men coupled with mutliple language translation errors has brought us to the Post-Modern Secular Humanism point of view that the Bible is myth and stories, none of which are to be taken literally that we are now debating.
I will point out again that the Latin Vulgate was a translation from Greek into Latin, that was translated from the Hebrew. The Latin was then translated into German which was then translated into English. Can you see my point of how mucked up the whole mess has become? What we call "Christianity" is NOT the ekklesia that Yeshua established. They were ALL Hebrew men, carrying on a Hebrew religious and spiritual system that was established at Mt. Sinai. The only difference being that He did away with the Ceremonial and Civil Law, but left the Moral Law intact...that has never changed nor been abolished by any member of the Godhead. The sooner everyone realizes that, the better off this world will be. Knowledge is increasing in these Last Days at a rapid pace, if we don't keep up, we will be swept away in the aftermath.
Respectfully,
Derek
<steps off soapbox>
Posted: 8/29/2008 3:19 AM PDT
Fudge,
That was a "wow" reply. You make some very good points. I certainly hope that I have not come across in the negative manner you describe. My intentions were not to be negative. I am trying to educate people in an open discussion, and yes things can get heated. Both sides are obviously passionate about their position, but that is to be expected. I would dare say "strong-willed" describes both sides, not just one person in particular. Myself, I am trying to be as impartial as I can be. Perhaps we can stop the mud-slinging and take a breather to gather our thoughts. This is not the Presidential Race...at least I didn't think it was. I am enjoying the intelligent posts like yours in this discussion. People that are willing to at least listen can diffuse a lot of problems. However, I am not sure we have reached the point yet that we can "agree to disagree".
The other thing I wanted to say is that I am deeply concerned by your testimony for many reasons. Pentecostal/Charismatic people can be very hurtful and cruel. Especially members of the clergy. I have been where many of you are, but God blessed me with 2 years of Revival and good teachers. I have been through some serious junk, but I have chosen to keep plugging away and not give up. Some think I am crazy. Others think I am stubborn. Some just can't comprehend it. I don't understand it all myself, but I keep pushing through. It doesn't matter what others think, only what God thinks. The Bible says He is made strong in our weakness...I would like to submit that in our brokeness, WE are made strong. We cannot do what we are called to do, until we have that inner strength that comes only from God. It is not an easy life, Yeshua never said it would be, but quite the opposite in fact. I guess some people just give up before they are strong enough to handle it. That is not directed at anyone specific, so don't everybody start getting in an uproar over it. I am trying to help.
At any rate, I will stop there. You may discuss this with me off-list if you wish. I can tell you some war stories, but I can also tell you some stories of love and forgiveness and encouragement.
I hope this has helped in some small way.
That was a "wow" reply. You make some very good points. I certainly hope that I have not come across in the negative manner you describe. My intentions were not to be negative. I am trying to educate people in an open discussion, and yes things can get heated. Both sides are obviously passionate about their position, but that is to be expected. I would dare say "strong-willed" describes both sides, not just one person in particular. Myself, I am trying to be as impartial as I can be. Perhaps we can stop the mud-slinging and take a breather to gather our thoughts. This is not the Presidential Race...at least I didn't think it was. I am enjoying the intelligent posts like yours in this discussion. People that are willing to at least listen can diffuse a lot of problems. However, I am not sure we have reached the point yet that we can "agree to disagree".
The other thing I wanted to say is that I am deeply concerned by your testimony for many reasons. Pentecostal/Charismatic people can be very hurtful and cruel. Especially members of the clergy. I have been where many of you are, but God blessed me with 2 years of Revival and good teachers. I have been through some serious junk, but I have chosen to keep plugging away and not give up. Some think I am crazy. Others think I am stubborn. Some just can't comprehend it. I don't understand it all myself, but I keep pushing through. It doesn't matter what others think, only what God thinks. The Bible says He is made strong in our weakness...I would like to submit that in our brokeness, WE are made strong. We cannot do what we are called to do, until we have that inner strength that comes only from God. It is not an easy life, Yeshua never said it would be, but quite the opposite in fact. I guess some people just give up before they are strong enough to handle it. That is not directed at anyone specific, so don't everybody start getting in an uproar over it. I am trying to help.
At any rate, I will stop there. You may discuss this with me off-list if you wish. I can tell you some war stories, but I can also tell you some stories of love and forgiveness and encouragement.
I hope this has helped in some small way.
Posted: 8/29/2008 6:04 AM PDT
There is also archealogical evidence that many of the towns and places in The Stand were real...but since that doesn't in any way prove the events in the book ever happened, I guess it's a silly point to make.
Posted: 8/29/2008 8:00 AM PDT
AHHHHHH!!!! Look what I started. WTF!
I didn't say the ark was real, nor that this was THE flood. There were several cataclysmic floods throughout history that changed the face of the world. (I mentioned that) Just because they found AN ARK, does not make it Noah's ark. I'm sure sooner or later they will find other Arks as well.
They found the palace at Knossos which they believe might have been the beginnings of the ATLANTIS myth. It was buried by the flood I previously mentioned due to the volcanic eruption near Santarini. There were many ships found in the massive harbor that once existed there. If these ancient people were sea faring and far more advanced then we first believed, then it's no huge wonder to find an ark on a mountain thousands of years later, as perhaps that area was covered by water during one of the floods and sank. Maybe it was BUBBA's Ark. Who knows who it belonged to.
The bible is simply stories passed down from generations and adapted to Christianity. It's mythologies compiled from other religions to make one big one. Every Religion has the flood myth, almost every religion has a virgin birth. (Egyptian-RA& Hathor's birth/Greece- Zeus impregnation of Leda/ Buddah was conceived from a virgin birth.
FLOOD MYTHS http://ancienthistory.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ/Ya&sdn=ancienthistory&cdn=education&tm=24&f=10&tt=14&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.dreamscape.com/morgana/titania.htm
VIRGIN MYTHS
http://englishatheist.org/indexd.shtml
I didn't say the ark was real, nor that this was THE flood. There were several cataclysmic floods throughout history that changed the face of the world. (I mentioned that) Just because they found AN ARK, does not make it Noah's ark. I'm sure sooner or later they will find other Arks as well.
They found the palace at Knossos which they believe might have been the beginnings of the ATLANTIS myth. It was buried by the flood I previously mentioned due to the volcanic eruption near Santarini. There were many ships found in the massive harbor that once existed there. If these ancient people were sea faring and far more advanced then we first believed, then it's no huge wonder to find an ark on a mountain thousands of years later, as perhaps that area was covered by water during one of the floods and sank. Maybe it was BUBBA's Ark. Who knows who it belonged to.
The bible is simply stories passed down from generations and adapted to Christianity. It's mythologies compiled from other religions to make one big one. Every Religion has the flood myth, almost every religion has a virgin birth. (Egyptian-RA& Hathor's birth/Greece- Zeus impregnation of Leda/ Buddah was conceived from a virgin birth.
FLOOD MYTHS http://ancienthistory.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ/Ya&sdn=ancienthistory&cdn=education&tm=24&f=10&tt=14&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.dreamscape.com/morgana/titania.htm
VIRGIN MYTHS
http://englishatheist.org/indexd.shtml
Posted: 8/29/2008 8:05 AM PDT
Jinx wrote: The bible is simply stories passed down from generations and adapted to Christianity. It's mythologies compiled from other religions to make one big one.
Also known as FOLKLORE. Which we rarely take seriously in any other culture but some how take as the gospel in this particular instance.
Also known as FOLKLORE. Which we rarely take seriously in any other culture but some how take as the gospel in this particular instance.
Posted: 8/29/2008 8:20 AM PDT
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
Bible quotes:
Your fathers, where are they? And the prophets, do they live forever?
Zechariah, 1. 5
For who hath despised the day of small things?
Zechariah, 4. 10
Prisoners of hope.
Zechariah, 9. 12
I was wounded in the house of my friends.
Zechariah, 13. 6
How doth the city sit solitary, that was full of people!
Lamentations, 1. 1
Is it nothing to you, all ye that pass by? behold, and see if there be any sorrow like unto my sorrow.
Lamentations, 1. 11
And I said, My strength and my hope is perished from the Lord:
Remembering mine affliction and my misery, the wormwood and the gall.
Lamentations, 3. 18
It is good for a man that he bear the yoke in his youth.
Lamentations, 3. 27
Thou shalt smother thyself in vaseline and smiteth something in the name of pants.
May, 25486836.856285285
O Lord, thou hast seen my wrong: judge thou my cause.
Lamentations, 4. 59
Jesus Christ: Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory.
1 Peter, 1. 7
Hope to the end.
1 Peter, 1. 13
All flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away.
1 Peter, 1. 24
As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
1 Peter, 2. 2
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people.
1 Peter, 2. 9
Abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul.
1 Peter, 2. 11
Fear God. Honor the king.
1 Peter, 2. 17
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
1 Peter, 2. 20
Ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
1 Peter, 2. 25
The ornament of a meek and quiet spirit.
1 Peter, 3. 4
I have no idea what these are all about.
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, Lionel/Bowel Movement.
Spot the odd quote out. ;D
Bible quotes:
Your fathers, where are they? And the prophets, do they live forever?
Zechariah, 1. 5
For who hath despised the day of small things?
Zechariah, 4. 10
Prisoners of hope.
Zechariah, 9. 12
I was wounded in the house of my friends.
Zechariah, 13. 6
How doth the city sit solitary, that was full of people!
Lamentations, 1. 1
Is it nothing to you, all ye that pass by? behold, and see if there be any sorrow like unto my sorrow.
Lamentations, 1. 11
And I said, My strength and my hope is perished from the Lord:
Remembering mine affliction and my misery, the wormwood and the gall.
Lamentations, 3. 18
It is good for a man that he bear the yoke in his youth.
Lamentations, 3. 27
Thou shalt smother thyself in vaseline and smiteth something in the name of pants.
May, 25486836.856285285
O Lord, thou hast seen my wrong: judge thou my cause.
Lamentations, 4. 59
Jesus Christ: Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory.
1 Peter, 1. 7
Hope to the end.
1 Peter, 1. 13
All flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away.
1 Peter, 1. 24
As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
1 Peter, 2. 2
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people.
1 Peter, 2. 9
Abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul.
1 Peter, 2. 11
Fear God. Honor the king.
1 Peter, 2. 17
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
1 Peter, 2. 20
Ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
1 Peter, 2. 25
The ornament of a meek and quiet spirit.
1 Peter, 3. 4
I have no idea what these are all about.
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, Lionel/Bowel Movement.
Spot the odd quote out. ;D
Posted: 8/29/2008 9:32 AM PDT
DerekG - so that those who might read this thread may have a balanced view of your minority view that Greek is a second translation of NT Scripture. - I include the following.
bible.org
Forum
Was some of the NT originally written in Aramaic?
Postby Tom Miller on Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:54 pm
There are a number of "Hebraic Roots" websites springing up that claim the NT was first written in Aramaic and then translated into Greek.
Please address and resolve this controversy.
Postby sandersann on Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:14 am
We cannot base doctrines on an hypothetical reconstruction of a yet to be found Aramaic text
It is my belief that God inspired the Greek text (the final form of the text)
a knowledge of Aramaic might help understanding the background and meaning of the various Aramaic words and sentence constructions following Aramaic syntax, though pattern and idioms (aramaisms) found in the Greek text
but an alleged Aramaic original text should not be used to overturn the meaning of the Greek text
Alain
Postby Tom Miller on Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:18 am
Marv wrote:I doubt that it will be resolved in an internet forum. There are some good cases made for at least some passages having aramaic roots. For instance the camel through the eye of a needle if originally in Aramaic may have actually said to pass a large rope through the eye of the needle.
Hope I remember the example correctly. In any case, the Greek is probably at least recording people's conversations that would have taken place in Aramaic. So in at least one sense at least some of the NT would have originally been Aramaic even if the first written form was Greek.
Is it a big issue with you? I was wondering why?
It had not been a big issue with me until I visited some websites done by
Avi ben Mordechai
http://www.m7000.com/Avi/Galatians.htm
in which he turns the doctrine of Paul upside down and insists Paul was defending the Torah. Somehow he alleges the Aramaic text says Paul was criticizing the Talmud but defending the Torah. It seems to me that Paul's epistles were all in Greek, and if the Holy Spirit could make people speak in tongues He could also allow them to write in tongues, in this case, the Greek tongue, so the words of Paul would be more readily available to the larger Hellenistic world.
Tom Miller
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:29 pm
bible.org
Forum
Was some of the NT originally written in Aramaic?
Postby Tom Miller on Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:54 pm
There are a number of "Hebraic Roots" websites springing up that claim the NT was first written in Aramaic and then translated into Greek.
Please address and resolve this controversy.
Postby sandersann on Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:14 am
We cannot base doctrines on an hypothetical reconstruction of a yet to be found Aramaic text
It is my belief that God inspired the Greek text (the final form of the text)
a knowledge of Aramaic might help understanding the background and meaning of the various Aramaic words and sentence constructions following Aramaic syntax, though pattern and idioms (aramaisms) found in the Greek text
but an alleged Aramaic original text should not be used to overturn the meaning of the Greek text
Alain
Postby Tom Miller on Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:18 am
Marv wrote:I doubt that it will be resolved in an internet forum. There are some good cases made for at least some passages having aramaic roots. For instance the camel through the eye of a needle if originally in Aramaic may have actually said to pass a large rope through the eye of the needle.
Hope I remember the example correctly. In any case, the Greek is probably at least recording people's conversations that would have taken place in Aramaic. So in at least one sense at least some of the NT would have originally been Aramaic even if the first written form was Greek.
Is it a big issue with you? I was wondering why?
It had not been a big issue with me until I visited some websites done by
Avi ben Mordechai
http://www.m7000.com/Avi/Galatians.htm
in which he turns the doctrine of Paul upside down and insists Paul was defending the Torah. Somehow he alleges the Aramaic text says Paul was criticizing the Talmud but defending the Torah. It seems to me that Paul's epistles were all in Greek, and if the Holy Spirit could make people speak in tongues He could also allow them to write in tongues, in this case, the Greek tongue, so the words of Paul would be more readily available to the larger Hellenistic world.
Tom Miller
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:29 pm
Posted: 8/29/2008 10:39 AM PDT
Inkwell,
You do realize that the word "Gospel" comes from the Greek word "evangelion", from which we get "Evangelist" and actually means "Good News"? The Old English word was either " godspel" meaning good story. It also can mean "an unquestionable truth", as you have used it here. That is where the term comes from and the Bible is indeed Good News to those who those who will listen to its wisdom and apply it to their life. I have seen more than one person lost in depression and hopelessness lifted out of it an dtheir life changed dramatically because of the Word of God. So, yeah, I take it as gospel as you put it. To be cured of depression and hopelessness without medication or psycho-therapy is good news that needs to be shared! To me, that is also an "unquestionable truth". So, yes, the Bible is gospel.
One more point. Do you guys/gals realize how much of our modern English laguage is influenced by the Bible? Many common sayings we use come from the Bible.
How I got on this rabbit trail, I don't know, but there it is for your consideration.
You do realize that the word "Gospel" comes from the Greek word "evangelion", from which we get "Evangelist" and actually means "Good News"? The Old English word was either " godspel" meaning good story. It also can mean "an unquestionable truth", as you have used it here. That is where the term comes from and the Bible is indeed Good News to those who those who will listen to its wisdom and apply it to their life. I have seen more than one person lost in depression and hopelessness lifted out of it an dtheir life changed dramatically because of the Word of God. So, yeah, I take it as gospel as you put it. To be cured of depression and hopelessness without medication or psycho-therapy is good news that needs to be shared! To me, that is also an "unquestionable truth". So, yes, the Bible is gospel.
One more point. Do you guys/gals realize how much of our modern English laguage is influenced by the Bible? Many common sayings we use come from the Bible.
How I got on this rabbit trail, I don't know, but there it is for your consideration.
Posted: 8/29/2008 11:22 AM PDT
Religion is a crutch for people who don't have the intestinal fortitude to do things for themselves. God doesn't cure depression, hunger or hopelessness. You do. Believing in some great phantasm has never done anything but land people in the looney bin. The sooner people recognize that they make things happen and stop waiting for god to rain down his blessings the better we will be.
Oh, and I don't give a good goddamn where the word comes from. I don't see how that bears any relevance except to steer the convo back around to how good the holy word is.
Oh, and I don't give a good goddamn where the word comes from. I don't see how that bears any relevance except to steer the convo back around to how good the holy word is.
Posted: 8/29/2008 11:41 AM PDT
If we're looking at linguistical influences, no source has driven and changed the English language as William Shakespeare. Which would make him...godly? No. But still a good writer.
And since I've been in the middle of this mess (cause I love pecking holes in arguments), this is my major question: What evidence is there to prove that the Bible is anything more than a book written by people who are as fallible as any of us? There are countless "divine" scriptures and holy texts from cultures all over the world. There are even more everyday fiction/non-fiction books. What is there to convince a person that the Bible is any different from any of them, or meant to be taken anymore literally or as anymore of a priori truth?
And no, you cannot site anything contained within the Bible b/c that's circular logic. You can't put a witness on the stand in court, ask him what proof he has to back up his testimony and think that, "Because I'm telling you" proves anything.
And since I've been in the middle of this mess (cause I love pecking holes in arguments), this is my major question: What evidence is there to prove that the Bible is anything more than a book written by people who are as fallible as any of us? There are countless "divine" scriptures and holy texts from cultures all over the world. There are even more everyday fiction/non-fiction books. What is there to convince a person that the Bible is any different from any of them, or meant to be taken anymore literally or as anymore of a priori truth?
And no, you cannot site anything contained within the Bible b/c that's circular logic. You can't put a witness on the stand in court, ask him what proof he has to back up his testimony and think that, "Because I'm telling you" proves anything.
Posted: 8/29/2008 11:57 AM PDT
Dear Senorita,
Man has a will, but it isn't free. It is a slave to his emotions, desires, his culture, Satan, and other things. That's what the Bible addresses when it says: When Christ sets you free, ye shall be free indeed. God told Adam: In the DAY you eat thereof, thou shalt surely die. Therefore, he died the day he sinned. He must have died spiritually, because he lived physically many more years.
Now I ask you: What better way could God show to men and angels his attributes (his glory) than to show man, experientially: His amazing love, power, and inexhaustive knowledge, and exalt his Son, than to have done it the way he has? God declares in his word that man, since the fall of Adam, is a rebel and(everything after its own kind, means his decendants are born like him) he understands nothing spiritually discerned - until God's spiritual Quickening.
He created the Universe to display his Omnipotence. He raised up Prophets to display his Omniscience. He designed the quickening to display his omnipresence. He sent his son to show his unconditional love. He gave his law to display his Holiness. The creation of man, and his salvation, and, or, damnation, are all incidental to that. There are multitudes of scripture that deny man's free will. You will believe according to the state heart is in - go right ahead. " The heart in man is deceitfull above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it." Then, God says: "I will take that stoney heart out of your flesh and will give unto you an heart of flesh (metaphorically speaking)."
Now, go on and ridicule, but the word of God is so self-vindicable that no-one can break it. There was another scoffer many years ago, Nebuchadnezzar, and yet, he finally declared: "At the end of those days I lifted up my eyes to heaven, and my understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most high, and praised him that liveth forever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion,, and his kingdom is from generation to generation: and all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth, and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Man has a will, but it isn't free. It is a slave to his emotions, desires, his culture, Satan, and other things. That's what the Bible addresses when it says: When Christ sets you free, ye shall be free indeed. God told Adam: In the DAY you eat thereof, thou shalt surely die. Therefore, he died the day he sinned. He must have died spiritually, because he lived physically many more years.
Now I ask you: What better way could God show to men and angels his attributes (his glory) than to show man, experientially: His amazing love, power, and inexhaustive knowledge, and exalt his Son, than to have done it the way he has? God declares in his word that man, since the fall of Adam, is a rebel and(everything after its own kind, means his decendants are born like him) he understands nothing spiritually discerned - until God's spiritual Quickening.
He created the Universe to display his Omnipotence. He raised up Prophets to display his Omniscience. He designed the quickening to display his omnipresence. He sent his son to show his unconditional love. He gave his law to display his Holiness. The creation of man, and his salvation, and, or, damnation, are all incidental to that. There are multitudes of scripture that deny man's free will. You will believe according to the state heart is in - go right ahead. " The heart in man is deceitfull above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it." Then, God says: "I will take that stoney heart out of your flesh and will give unto you an heart of flesh (metaphorically speaking)."
Now, go on and ridicule, but the word of God is so self-vindicable that no-one can break it. There was another scoffer many years ago, Nebuchadnezzar, and yet, he finally declared: "At the end of those days I lifted up my eyes to heaven, and my understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most high, and praised him that liveth forever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion,, and his kingdom is from generation to generation: and all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth, and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Posted: 8/29/2008 12:22 PM PDT
DerekG
God said: Before anything was, I AM. I know "free will" makes things simpler to explain, but the Bible denies free will.
"God granteth repentance". "Faith is the gift of God." "This is the work of God; that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." "No man cometh to me lest the Father that sent me call him." " No man can come to me lest it be given him of the Father.""Ye hath he quickened who were dead" (ever hear of the dead making the first move? "ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you." " the way that seemeth right to man is the way of death." "The carnel mind is inmity ...neither indeed can he (on ability) "The natural man receiveth not....neither can he know (no ability). Rom 9:16"It is not of him that willeth... "Therefore hath God mercy on whom He will have mercy." Unto you it is given to know..." I pray not for the world, but for them that thou hast given me."
If you will read the real Lord's prayer John Ch.17 (John 3:16 is the diciples, our prayer) and Rom.9:11 thru 24, you will see scripture that couldn't even be in the Bible if free will was true.
God said: Before anything was, I AM. I know "free will" makes things simpler to explain, but the Bible denies free will.
"God granteth repentance". "Faith is the gift of God." "This is the work of God; that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." "No man cometh to me lest the Father that sent me call him." " No man can come to me lest it be given him of the Father.""Ye hath he quickened who were dead" (ever hear of the dead making the first move? "ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you." " the way that seemeth right to man is the way of death." "The carnel mind is inmity ...neither indeed can he (on ability) "The natural man receiveth not....neither can he know (no ability). Rom 9:16"It is not of him that willeth... "Therefore hath God mercy on whom He will have mercy." Unto you it is given to know..." I pray not for the world, but for them that thou hast given me."
If you will read the real Lord's prayer John Ch.17 (John 3:16 is the diciples, our prayer) and Rom.9:11 thru 24, you will see scripture that couldn't even be in the Bible if free will was true.
Posted: 8/29/2008 12:29 PM PDT
May-Birch Sometime May-B you will. Anyway, I enjoyed reading them
Posted: 8/29/2008 12:33 PM PDT
It may supprise you that most people in the "looney bin" curse and rant like you.
Posted: 8/29/2008 12:50 PM PDT
Dear Judge, oops, I mean Fudge,
You've really exposed me. I see I'm a sinner. Lord, have mercy on me; a sinner. And thank you for sending this christian to expose me. I"m sure she is a christian, because your word proclaims that only they can make a righteous (spiritual) judgement.
All this aside, Fudge: did you enjoy your righteous fury in taking this hypocrite down?
You've really exposed me. I see I'm a sinner. Lord, have mercy on me; a sinner. And thank you for sending this christian to expose me. I"m sure she is a christian, because your word proclaims that only they can make a righteous (spiritual) judgement.
All this aside, Fudge: did you enjoy your righteous fury in taking this hypocrite down?
Posted: 8/29/2008 1:52 PM PDT
DerekG,
You put me to shame with your answer to Fudge. I do err in the way I try to communicate my belief I certainly have nothing to get self-righteous about. Maybe you have helped, where I didn't.
You put me to shame with your answer to Fudge. I do err in the way I try to communicate my belief I certainly have nothing to get self-righteous about. Maybe you have helped, where I didn't.
Posted: 8/29/2008 1:55 PM PDT
I see you have stopped putting "God bless" at the end of your posts.
;D
Vaseline?
;D
Vaseline?
Posted: 8/29/2008 3:38 PM PDT
Anowalk,
The Bible was written over a period of probably 1500 yrs by numerous people and yet, it harmonises unlike anything else. The ancient dead sea scrolls, harmonise. The history of the Israelites are in harmony. Archeology harmonises. And yet, no one can accept the authority of scripture, unless God shows them the truth of it by his spirit. Isaiah Ch. 53 " Who hath believed our report, and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed, etc? If you will read the rest of that chapter, it will perfectly describe Christ, who appeared a thousand, or so, years later; as do all other prophesys of the Bible come to pass.
And it is the most hated and attacked message in history: as Christ said it would be. That's about it, friend.
God bless you.
The Bible was written over a period of probably 1500 yrs by numerous people and yet, it harmonises unlike anything else. The ancient dead sea scrolls, harmonise. The history of the Israelites are in harmony. Archeology harmonises. And yet, no one can accept the authority of scripture, unless God shows them the truth of it by his spirit. Isaiah Ch. 53 " Who hath believed our report, and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed, etc? If you will read the rest of that chapter, it will perfectly describe Christ, who appeared a thousand, or so, years later; as do all other prophesys of the Bible come to pass.
And it is the most hated and attacked message in history: as Christ said it would be. That's about it, friend.
God bless you.
Posted: 8/29/2008 3:42 PM PDT
May Birch,
I"ve been told it makes me selfrighteous, or hippocritical.
I"ve been told it makes me selfrighteous, or hippocritical.
Posted: 8/29/2008 3:52 PM PDT
inkwell,
It's not a crutch for me. It's a burden to bear - that I happily bear; because I've been bought at great cost.
I was a Gomer ( that's not mis-spelled ) - but like in Hosea.
Back before I knew the truth, all was dandy, no sweat, - but of no purpose at all; no meaning at all.
It's not a crutch for me. It's a burden to bear - that I happily bear; because I've been bought at great cost.
I was a Gomer ( that's not mis-spelled ) - but like in Hosea.
Back before I knew the truth, all was dandy, no sweat, - but of no purpose at all; no meaning at all.
Posted: 8/29/2008 4:06 PM PDT
You know Lionell I read that book once then once more to be sure. I then decided to be more honest about it and fair so I read 1800 some odd pages not once more but four more times. Every page in the bible six times every word six times. (not including years in Sunday school) The "judgment" mine is that it is a great story. In places it reads very much like Scifi others like fantasy. Romance who dunnits poetry of the worst kind (not my taste) Righteous rath revenge it prettymuch has it all including a little soft porn. I am just looking again and sure enough you are no where in it. In light of this I would seriously consider my previous advice once more. LIGHTEN UP have a laugh unloosen your anus etc. If you do not heed my advice GOD will take note and he will show you the meaning of funny in a most unholy way. I know a few holy men and women from different religious back grounds and they all have a REALLY GOOD SENSE of HUMOR. When asked, my one friend mentioned the rath of god and how it was better to dance when some one is shooting at your feet. I laughed he smiled but the look in his eye told me a tale. (fear?)
Now I see by todays posts you been playing the saint again (not very nice) A little martyr (whatever?) and a patient masiah. Now you thinking there is nothing I can do to change this and you are right but I know who can :) Don't say I never warned you Lionel God has a really zaney sense of humor you just don't want it turned on you.
Good Luck :)
Now I see by todays posts you been playing the saint again (not very nice) A little martyr (whatever?) and a patient masiah. Now you thinking there is nothing I can do to change this and you are right but I know who can :) Don't say I never warned you Lionel God has a really zaney sense of humor you just don't want it turned on you.
Good Luck :)
Posted: 8/29/2008 4:25 PM PDT
Oh lionel, how silly you are being.
Yes, I judged you. Why? Because I don't have a religion that tells me not to.
For goodness sake, my POINT was taht YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER.
you are the one trying to prove God is real. To do this, you have to show who he is in your actions so that they DIFFER from those who don't know.
QED: You are silly
Yes, I judged you. Why? Because I don't have a religion that tells me not to.
For goodness sake, my POINT was taht YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER.
you are the one trying to prove God is real. To do this, you have to show who he is in your actions so that they DIFFER from those who don't know.
QED: You are silly
Posted: 8/29/2008 4:30 PM PDT
Oh, and by the way:
"Dear Judge, I mean, Fudge" is exactly the sort of thing your savior would not say.
DerekG: I'm sorry if it sounded like I was blaming only Lionel. There have been quite a few people on here who aren't Christians that have been really rude also, but their faiths/lack there of don't tell them specifically not to do this, and they didn't post a forum topic specifically on why everyone else should follow their religion (which isn't being exceptionally represented by Lionel right now, though you certainly have been a good sport =] )
"Dear Judge, I mean, Fudge" is exactly the sort of thing your savior would not say.
DerekG: I'm sorry if it sounded like I was blaming only Lionel. There have been quite a few people on here who aren't Christians that have been really rude also, but their faiths/lack there of don't tell them specifically not to do this, and they didn't post a forum topic specifically on why everyone else should follow their religion (which isn't being exceptionally represented by Lionel right now, though you certainly have been a good sport =] )
Posted: 8/29/2008 4:30 PM PDT
Religion is such a wonderful topic. It never caused anyone any harm.
Oh no, wait there... It did!!!
Oh no, wait there... It did!!!
Posted: 8/29/2008 5:11 PM PDT
Wow this thread makes me want to smoke some crack, pop some shrooms, and become a prophet of the lord almighty..
(Even though he now looks like an inflatable smurf.)
Relgion is fun in winter, because it keeps the heads hot.
"After a few days, the Lord called to Adam and said, "It is time for you and Eve to begin the process of populating the earth so I want you to kiss her." Adam answered, "Yes Lord, but what is a kiss?" So the Lord gave a brief description to Adam who took Eve by the hand and took her to a nearby bush. A few minutes later, Adam emerged and said, "Thank you Lord, that was enjoyable." And the Lord replied, "Yes Adam, I thought you might enjoy that and now I'd like you to caress Eve."
And Adam said, " 'What is a 'caress'? So the Lord again gave Adam a brief description and Adam went behind the bush with Eve. Quite a few minutes later, Adam returned, smiling, and said, "'Lord, that was even better than the kiss." And the Lord said, "'You've done well Adam. And now I want you to make love to Eve." And Adam asked, "What is 'make love' Lord?"' So the Lord again gave Adam directions and Adam went again to Eve behind the bush, but this time he reappeared in two seconds. And Adam said, "Lord, what is a 'headache'?"
---
"There were these two priests who rode bikes to church every Sunday. Well one day one of the priests showed up to work without his bike. The other priest asked where his bike was so the first priest said, "I don't know, but I think it got stolen!" The other priest said, "Well what you do is read off the Ten Commandments, and when you get to "Thou shall not steal" someone will confess to the crime." The next time the two saw each other the priest had his bicycle back. "I see you got your bike back! Did you do what I said?" the one priest said. The other said, "Well kind of, when I was reading the commandments and I got to Thou Shall Not Commit Adultery, I seemed to remember where I had left it.""
---
"A catholic priest and a rabbi sit next to each other on a long journey, so after some hesitation start to talk to each other. After discussing the weather and the cricket, the priest turns to the rabbi and says that he thought it was rather strange that he was not allowed to eat pork, and asked him whether he ever had. The rabbi replied, "Well, when I was a small boy, I did in fact taste a small piece of bacon." "What was it like?" asked the priest. The rabbi replied: "Not nearly as good as sex." "
---
" A Brit, a Frenchman and a Russian are viewing a painting of Adam and Eve frolicking in the Garden of Eden. "Look at their reserve, their calm," muses the Brit. "They must be British.""Nonsense," the Frenchman disagrees. "They're naked, and so beautiful. Clearly, they are French.""No clothes, no shelter," the Russian points out, "they have only an apple to eat, and they're being told this is paradise. They are defniatly Russian." "
(Even though he now looks like an inflatable smurf.)
Relgion is fun in winter, because it keeps the heads hot.
"After a few days, the Lord called to Adam and said, "It is time for you and Eve to begin the process of populating the earth so I want you to kiss her." Adam answered, "Yes Lord, but what is a kiss?" So the Lord gave a brief description to Adam who took Eve by the hand and took her to a nearby bush. A few minutes later, Adam emerged and said, "Thank you Lord, that was enjoyable." And the Lord replied, "Yes Adam, I thought you might enjoy that and now I'd like you to caress Eve."
And Adam said, " 'What is a 'caress'? So the Lord again gave Adam a brief description and Adam went behind the bush with Eve. Quite a few minutes later, Adam returned, smiling, and said, "'Lord, that was even better than the kiss." And the Lord said, "'You've done well Adam. And now I want you to make love to Eve." And Adam asked, "What is 'make love' Lord?"' So the Lord again gave Adam directions and Adam went again to Eve behind the bush, but this time he reappeared in two seconds. And Adam said, "Lord, what is a 'headache'?"
---
"There were these two priests who rode bikes to church every Sunday. Well one day one of the priests showed up to work without his bike. The other priest asked where his bike was so the first priest said, "I don't know, but I think it got stolen!" The other priest said, "Well what you do is read off the Ten Commandments, and when you get to "Thou shall not steal" someone will confess to the crime." The next time the two saw each other the priest had his bicycle back. "I see you got your bike back! Did you do what I said?" the one priest said. The other said, "Well kind of, when I was reading the commandments and I got to Thou Shall Not Commit Adultery, I seemed to remember where I had left it.""
---
"A catholic priest and a rabbi sit next to each other on a long journey, so after some hesitation start to talk to each other. After discussing the weather and the cricket, the priest turns to the rabbi and says that he thought it was rather strange that he was not allowed to eat pork, and asked him whether he ever had. The rabbi replied, "Well, when I was a small boy, I did in fact taste a small piece of bacon." "What was it like?" asked the priest. The rabbi replied: "Not nearly as good as sex." "
---
" A Brit, a Frenchman and a Russian are viewing a painting of Adam and Eve frolicking in the Garden of Eden. "Look at their reserve, their calm," muses the Brit. "They must be British.""Nonsense," the Frenchman disagrees. "They're naked, and so beautiful. Clearly, they are French.""No clothes, no shelter," the Russian points out, "they have only an apple to eat, and they're being told this is paradise. They are defniatly Russian." "
Posted: 8/29/2008 5:11 PM PDT
Wow this thread makes me want to smoke some crack, pop some shrooms, and become a prophet of the lord almighty..
(Even though he now looks like an inflatable smurf.)
Relgion is fun in winter, because it keeps the heads hot.
"After a few days, the Lord called to Adam and said, "It is time for you and Eve to begin the process of populating the earth so I want you to kiss her." Adam answered, "Yes Lord, but what is a kiss?" So the Lord gave a brief description to Adam who took Eve by the hand and took her to a nearby bush. A few minutes later, Adam emerged and said, "Thank you Lord, that was enjoyable." And the Lord replied, "Yes Adam, I thought you might enjoy that and now I'd like you to caress Eve."
And Adam said, " 'What is a 'caress'? So the Lord again gave Adam a brief description and Adam went behind the bush with Eve. Quite a few minutes later, Adam returned, smiling, and said, "'Lord, that was even better than the kiss." And the Lord said, "'You've done well Adam. And now I want you to make love to Eve." And Adam asked, "What is 'make love' Lord?"' So the Lord again gave Adam directions and Adam went again to Eve behind the bush, but this time he reappeared in two seconds. And Adam said, "Lord, what is a 'headache'?"
---
"There were these two priests who rode bikes to church every Sunday. Well one day one of the priests showed up to work without his bike. The other priest asked where his bike was so the first priest said, "I don't know, but I think it got stolen!" The other priest said, "Well what you do is read off the Ten Commandments, and when you get to "Thou shall not steal" someone will confess to the crime." The next time the two saw each other the priest had his bicycle back. "I see you got your bike back! Did you do what I said?" the one priest said. The other said, "Well kind of, when I was reading the commandments and I got to Thou Shall Not Commit Adultery, I seemed to remember where I had left it.""
---
"A catholic priest and a rabbi sit next to each other on a long journey, so after some hesitation start to talk to each other. After discussing the weather and the cricket, the priest turns to the rabbi and says that he thought it was rather strange that he was not allowed to eat pork, and asked him whether he ever had. The rabbi replied, "Well, when I was a small boy, I did in fact taste a small piece of bacon." "What was it like?" asked the priest. The rabbi replied: "Not nearly as good as sex." "
---
" A Brit, a Frenchman and a Russian are viewing a painting of Adam and Eve frolicking in the Garden of Eden. "Look at their reserve, their calm," muses the Brit. "They must be British.""Nonsense," the Frenchman disagrees. "They're naked, and so beautiful. Clearly, they are French.""No clothes, no shelter," the Russian points out, "they have only an apple to eat, and they're being told this is paradise. They are defniatly Russian." "
(Even though he now looks like an inflatable smurf.)
Relgion is fun in winter, because it keeps the heads hot.
"After a few days, the Lord called to Adam and said, "It is time for you and Eve to begin the process of populating the earth so I want you to kiss her." Adam answered, "Yes Lord, but what is a kiss?" So the Lord gave a brief description to Adam who took Eve by the hand and took her to a nearby bush. A few minutes later, Adam emerged and said, "Thank you Lord, that was enjoyable." And the Lord replied, "Yes Adam, I thought you might enjoy that and now I'd like you to caress Eve."
And Adam said, " 'What is a 'caress'? So the Lord again gave Adam a brief description and Adam went behind the bush with Eve. Quite a few minutes later, Adam returned, smiling, and said, "'Lord, that was even better than the kiss." And the Lord said, "'You've done well Adam. And now I want you to make love to Eve." And Adam asked, "What is 'make love' Lord?"' So the Lord again gave Adam directions and Adam went again to Eve behind the bush, but this time he reappeared in two seconds. And Adam said, "Lord, what is a 'headache'?"
---
"There were these two priests who rode bikes to church every Sunday. Well one day one of the priests showed up to work without his bike. The other priest asked where his bike was so the first priest said, "I don't know, but I think it got stolen!" The other priest said, "Well what you do is read off the Ten Commandments, and when you get to "Thou shall not steal" someone will confess to the crime." The next time the two saw each other the priest had his bicycle back. "I see you got your bike back! Did you do what I said?" the one priest said. The other said, "Well kind of, when I was reading the commandments and I got to Thou Shall Not Commit Adultery, I seemed to remember where I had left it.""
---
"A catholic priest and a rabbi sit next to each other on a long journey, so after some hesitation start to talk to each other. After discussing the weather and the cricket, the priest turns to the rabbi and says that he thought it was rather strange that he was not allowed to eat pork, and asked him whether he ever had. The rabbi replied, "Well, when I was a small boy, I did in fact taste a small piece of bacon." "What was it like?" asked the priest. The rabbi replied: "Not nearly as good as sex." "
---
" A Brit, a Frenchman and a Russian are viewing a painting of Adam and Eve frolicking in the Garden of Eden. "Look at their reserve, their calm," muses the Brit. "They must be British.""Nonsense," the Frenchman disagrees. "They're naked, and so beautiful. Clearly, they are French.""No clothes, no shelter," the Russian points out, "they have only an apple to eat, and they're being told this is paradise. They are defniatly Russian." "
Posted: 8/29/2008 5:14 PM PDT
Hahahahahahah!
I'm Lovin it.
I'm Lovin it.
Posted: 8/29/2008 5:16 PM PDT
I love you CountVlad. those were amazing
Posted: 8/29/2008 5:18 PM PDT
Just about sums it all up.
Posted: 8/29/2008 5:27 PM PDT
Dear Fudge,
You are so sure you know what Christ would say. You probably would have condemned him many times, as you have me, when he upbraided the Scribes and Pharasees, or when he talked to the woman at the well - and when he talked to Nicodemus and Judas..
You are so sure you know what Christ would say. You probably would have condemned him many times, as you have me, when he upbraided the Scribes and Pharasees, or when he talked to the woman at the well - and when he talked to Nicodemus and Judas..
Posted: 8/29/2008 5:31 PM PDT
Count Vlad,
You will find popularity in plasphemy.
You will find popularity in plasphemy.
Posted: 8/29/2008 5:35 PM PDT
Before I take my nap I must state this.
I would never hold religion against someone, nor would I condem the god or gods or goddess they serve.
I don't dis-like Christ, I just don't worship him, or belive in the same things you do.
In my opinion, it is wrong to tell someone they are wrong because they do not belive in the same thing you do.
Do you see my ulitmate point.
P.S. last time I cheaked, this was a WRITING website, not a website on religion.
Belive what ever you want, just don't shove it down my throat.
I don't like choking on bullsh**.
And-rant over, I'm out, like a light.
I would never hold religion against someone, nor would I condem the god or gods or goddess they serve.
I don't dis-like Christ, I just don't worship him, or belive in the same things you do.
In my opinion, it is wrong to tell someone they are wrong because they do not belive in the same thing you do.
Do you see my ulitmate point.
P.S. last time I cheaked, this was a WRITING website, not a website on religion.
Belive what ever you want, just don't shove it down my throat.
I don't like choking on bullsh**.
And-rant over, I'm out, like a light.
Posted: 8/29/2008 5:35 PM PDT
"How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?"
Mathew 7:4
Here is what I know about your god:
"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails.
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love."
1 Corinthians 13:4-8; 13
Mathew 7:4
Here is what I know about your god:
"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails.
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love."
1 Corinthians 13:4-8; 13
Posted: 8/29/2008 5:38 PM PDT
I have a question for you, Lionel, and it is siimply this:
What is your point of this forum?
Think about it. Realize your imeadiate answer and then reavaluate it, because it certainly has nothing to do with the glory of God.
What is your point of this forum?
Think about it. Realize your imeadiate answer and then reavaluate it, because it certainly has nothing to do with the glory of God.
Posted: 8/29/2008 5:42 PM PDT
I would just like to point you all in the direction of "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. (A book utilising balanced argument.)
Christians use a book, the bible as their mainstay of defence. (A book with no balanced argument)
As an atheist, I will choose to use this book as my mainstay of defence.
The God Delusion was written in 2006. The bible was written an unspecified time ago (in fact it is even disputed among biblical scholars when it was written. Even Christ's alleged year of birth is disputed).
Christians use a book, the bible as their mainstay of defence. (A book with no balanced argument)
As an atheist, I will choose to use this book as my mainstay of defence.
The God Delusion was written in 2006. The bible was written an unspecified time ago (in fact it is even disputed among biblical scholars when it was written. Even Christ's alleged year of birth is disputed).
Posted: 8/29/2008 6:56 PM PDT
Leland,
I've already been pointed there. I would like to point you to: The Devel's Delusion - Atheism and its scientific pretensions, by David Berlinski. A Ph.D. at princeton U, A secular Jew, and agnostic, with no religious beliefs who takes Dawkins book apart. Berlinski recounts and exposes Hawkins attempt to get rid of the Big Bang theory (it to closely fits the creation account), by mathmatically describing a "self caused" universe. It's not that Hawkins math was so bad, but he front loaded his theory with assumptions that allow him to reach his desired result.
According to Physicist Paul Davis, scientists have been waking up to an inconvenient truth - the universe looks suspiciously like a Fix job. It's becoming more and more apparent that a host of physical laws and phenomena in the universe are exquisitely "fine tuned to permit the existance of life - Berlinski cites the cosmological constant, the ratio of neutrons to protons, the ratio of electromagnetic force to the gravitational force, and the speed of light in this reguard. Astronomer and atheist Fred Hoyle even concluded, "the universe looks like a put up job." ( meaning design as opposed to chance )
I've already been pointed there. I would like to point you to: The Devel's Delusion - Atheism and its scientific pretensions, by David Berlinski. A Ph.D. at princeton U, A secular Jew, and agnostic, with no religious beliefs who takes Dawkins book apart. Berlinski recounts and exposes Hawkins attempt to get rid of the Big Bang theory (it to closely fits the creation account), by mathmatically describing a "self caused" universe. It's not that Hawkins math was so bad, but he front loaded his theory with assumptions that allow him to reach his desired result.
According to Physicist Paul Davis, scientists have been waking up to an inconvenient truth - the universe looks suspiciously like a Fix job. It's becoming more and more apparent that a host of physical laws and phenomena in the universe are exquisitely "fine tuned to permit the existance of life - Berlinski cites the cosmological constant, the ratio of neutrons to protons, the ratio of electromagnetic force to the gravitational force, and the speed of light in this reguard. Astronomer and atheist Fred Hoyle even concluded, "the universe looks like a put up job." ( meaning design as opposed to chance )
Posted: 8/29/2008 6:58 PM PDT
Leland,
I've already been pointed there. I would like to point you to: The Devel's Delusion - Atheism and its scientific pretensions, by David Berlinski. A Ph.D. at princeton U, A secular Jew, and agnostic, with no religious beliefs who takes Dawkins book apart. Berlinski recounts and exposes Hawkins attempt to get rid of the Big Bang theory (it to closely fits the creation account), by mathmatically describing a "self caused" universe. It's not that Hawkins math was so bad, but he front loaded his theory with assumptions that allow him to reach his desired result.
According to Physicist Paul Davis, scientists have been waking up to an inconvenient truth - the universe looks suspiciously like a Fix job. It's becoming more and more apparent that a host of physical laws and phenomena in the universe are exquisitely "fine tuned to permit the existance of life - Berlinski cites the cosmological constant, the ratio of neutrons to protons, the ratio of electromagnetic force to the gravitational force, and the speed of light in this reguard. Astronomer and atheist Fred Hoyle even concluded, "the universe looks like a put up job." ( meaning design as opposed to chance )
I've already been pointed there. I would like to point you to: The Devel's Delusion - Atheism and its scientific pretensions, by David Berlinski. A Ph.D. at princeton U, A secular Jew, and agnostic, with no religious beliefs who takes Dawkins book apart. Berlinski recounts and exposes Hawkins attempt to get rid of the Big Bang theory (it to closely fits the creation account), by mathmatically describing a "self caused" universe. It's not that Hawkins math was so bad, but he front loaded his theory with assumptions that allow him to reach his desired result.
According to Physicist Paul Davis, scientists have been waking up to an inconvenient truth - the universe looks suspiciously like a Fix job. It's becoming more and more apparent that a host of physical laws and phenomena in the universe are exquisitely "fine tuned to permit the existance of life - Berlinski cites the cosmological constant, the ratio of neutrons to protons, the ratio of electromagnetic force to the gravitational force, and the speed of light in this reguard. Astronomer and atheist Fred Hoyle even concluded, "the universe looks like a put up job." ( meaning design as opposed to chance )
Posted: 8/29/2008 7:13 PM PDT
Dear Fudge,
Yes. I would like to know - how can you?
How do you know he is my God? Are you omniscient?
I've only been rejoicing in the truth.
Lighten up dear, Count Vlad will chasten you.
Yes. I would like to know - how can you?
How do you know he is my God? Are you omniscient?
I've only been rejoicing in the truth.
Lighten up dear, Count Vlad will chasten you.
Posted: 8/29/2008 7:45 PM PDT
Fudge,
I began with an attempt to inform people about the religious humanists, who have their beliefs taught to our children in public school, while our christian beliefs have been expunged from school. I asked them to punch up "Humanist Manifesto" on their browser to see that the leading humanists of the day admit theirs is a religion too. As far as I can tell, none did so. As a matter of fact: Why do you ask me this question? Do you come to a thread and enter the discussion, with an air of authority, without even reading the (supposed to be) subject of the thread?
The subject was humanism, but since humanism is a religion; it was about religion too. Of course, religion; especially Christianity is a red flag in our "modern" age, so, hardly anyone was interested in humanism. It's cool this day and time to go after Christianity. It's considered chic, academic. Christianity is ridiculed by most academics today. The 60's radicals have held most professorships for quite a while now, I suppose.
God bless you
I began with an attempt to inform people about the religious humanists, who have their beliefs taught to our children in public school, while our christian beliefs have been expunged from school. I asked them to punch up "Humanist Manifesto" on their browser to see that the leading humanists of the day admit theirs is a religion too. As far as I can tell, none did so. As a matter of fact: Why do you ask me this question? Do you come to a thread and enter the discussion, with an air of authority, without even reading the (supposed to be) subject of the thread?
The subject was humanism, but since humanism is a religion; it was about religion too. Of course, religion; especially Christianity is a red flag in our "modern" age, so, hardly anyone was interested in humanism. It's cool this day and time to go after Christianity. It's considered chic, academic. Christianity is ridiculed by most academics today. The 60's radicals have held most professorships for quite a while now, I suppose.
God bless you
Posted: 8/29/2008 9:12 PM PDT
Hmmm, where to begin
Firstly, I don't consider your title "THE IMPOSSIBILITY OF THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE" as a way to "inform people about the religious humanists"
Secondly, even if there is no "seperation of church and state" in the constitution (i'm not even going to argue), the point of our constitution is to support the rights of the people (and what they want), and the majority of people don't want religion in the classroom. As far as humanists go, the people just dont care (majority, though I respect your concern)
Thirdly, no, I didn't google "humanist manifesto" because you said "Punch it up on your computer and see for yourself," which I interpreted as "If you don't beleive all this crap I'm spouting, go look it up for yoursel." Since I didn't disbeleive you on that regard, I didn't think it was important to look it up.
Really, I find it hard that your goal was to "inform" people on humanism. It came of to me as "You are completely an idiot if you disagree with me."
Anyway, I just don't care. This conversation is pointless. In my opinion, you are a poor excuse for a representative of the Christian faith.
Firstly, I don't consider your title "THE IMPOSSIBILITY OF THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE" as a way to "inform people about the religious humanists"
Secondly, even if there is no "seperation of church and state" in the constitution (i'm not even going to argue), the point of our constitution is to support the rights of the people (and what they want), and the majority of people don't want religion in the classroom. As far as humanists go, the people just dont care (majority, though I respect your concern)
Thirdly, no, I didn't google "humanist manifesto" because you said "Punch it up on your computer and see for yourself," which I interpreted as "If you don't beleive all this crap I'm spouting, go look it up for yoursel." Since I didn't disbeleive you on that regard, I didn't think it was important to look it up.
Really, I find it hard that your goal was to "inform" people on humanism. It came of to me as "You are completely an idiot if you disagree with me."
Anyway, I just don't care. This conversation is pointless. In my opinion, you are a poor excuse for a representative of the Christian faith.
Posted: 8/29/2008 11:42 PM PDT
In the blue corner we have John Doe Atheist/Agnostic, and in the red corner we have the Christian fundamentalist. Gentleman, you know the rules. A clean fight, no rabbit punches and no hitting below the belt. Touch gloves and take your corners. Let's get reeeeady to ruuumble! Ding, ding, ding!
Posted: 8/29/2008 11:51 PM PDT
You know Derek, that might be the best thought posted in this forum yet.
Posted: 8/30/2008 12:20 AM PDT
My point in my previous comment was not to diss Christians. Rather, it stated the reasons why I AM NOT A FUCKING CHRISTIAN. My logic makes sense to me.
Point A: Every culture has creation myths, god(s), and religions. Why is it your place to point out that Christianity is right while the others are wrong? As far as I'm concerned, they're all equal. You may think you have more proof than the other stories, but did you ever stop to consider that they believe they also have more proof? Otherwise, why would they believe it?
B: The circular logic that Lionel and others on here have displayed is so twisted it's making me dizzy. I don't even know where to begin in unraveling your 'facts.' It's not even really worth it, as you would just ignore MY reasoning anyways. I have tried to see it from your perspective. Sadly, I see no real facts or convincing arguments. I see befuddled, confused, circular logic and blind statements with no basis in reality whatsoever. I don't care what we're discussing, if I see information like that I'm going to disregard it. I could poke holes in it all day, but there's no point in arguing to deaf ears.
C: I don't care what people believe in. If it makes them happy, go for it. AS LONG AS IT'S NOT HURTING ANYONE ELSE, I DON'T CARE. Sadly, I have seen religion used as an excuse to do much more harm than good in this world. The Crusades, 9/11, etc. One coming from Christianity, one from the Muslims. This is why I think organized religion is an evil.
D: Another reason that I dislike organized religion, period, is because it brainwashes people. Argue with me all you want that it just shows them the right way or whatever, but in all honesty it just LIMITS people to one way of thinking and speaking, one way of doing. If your God is true, and he created everything, then he must also have invented different ways of thinking. Why would he want you to limit yourself to one? Why would he want to constrain you? Now I'm getting back into the circular logic and insane reasoning, but just think about these points.
E: Someone was talking about the fact that the universe seemed designed for life. Well, duh. We wouldn't be here to see that if it wasn't. I would have thought that was kind of obvious. This 'phenomenon' and 'proof' of God's existence can also be explained by the multiple universe theory. Say that thousands, maybe infinite numbers of universes are out there, all varying slightly. In this one, conditions worked out just right for this type of life (as the probabilities tell us it must, with infinite universes) and look! Here we are. This theory is just as plausible as the God theory. It has just as many facts to back it up. I'm not saying either way. Which leads into my final point of the night:
F: There very well may be a god out there. I'm not discounting the possibility. This entire argument has been simply to state what I have observed and thought about in my life. However, if there is a god, I honestly don't think he is anything like what ANY religion of the world says he is. Think about this: the Bible states that God is perfect, but ascribes very human characteristics to him: jealousy, anger, revenge, etc. Some of these same emotions we detest in people. So why is it perfect in God? I don't understand that, and I'm not sure that there's an argument to convince me. I view the Bible as yet another myth. No more, and no less, believable than the other thousands of myths floating around in the world.
The end.
P.S. I have read the Bible. Several times. And I attended church for many years. I've studied theology. I've tried to come to an educated conclusion. I then cut the middle out of my King James copy of the Bible and I now store my weed in it. Thank you God. :)
Point A: Every culture has creation myths, god(s), and religions. Why is it your place to point out that Christianity is right while the others are wrong? As far as I'm concerned, they're all equal. You may think you have more proof than the other stories, but did you ever stop to consider that they believe they also have more proof? Otherwise, why would they believe it?
B: The circular logic that Lionel and others on here have displayed is so twisted it's making me dizzy. I don't even know where to begin in unraveling your 'facts.' It's not even really worth it, as you would just ignore MY reasoning anyways. I have tried to see it from your perspective. Sadly, I see no real facts or convincing arguments. I see befuddled, confused, circular logic and blind statements with no basis in reality whatsoever. I don't care what we're discussing, if I see information like that I'm going to disregard it. I could poke holes in it all day, but there's no point in arguing to deaf ears.
C: I don't care what people believe in. If it makes them happy, go for it. AS LONG AS IT'S NOT HURTING ANYONE ELSE, I DON'T CARE. Sadly, I have seen religion used as an excuse to do much more harm than good in this world. The Crusades, 9/11, etc. One coming from Christianity, one from the Muslims. This is why I think organized religion is an evil.
D: Another reason that I dislike organized religion, period, is because it brainwashes people. Argue with me all you want that it just shows them the right way or whatever, but in all honesty it just LIMITS people to one way of thinking and speaking, one way of doing. If your God is true, and he created everything, then he must also have invented different ways of thinking. Why would he want you to limit yourself to one? Why would he want to constrain you? Now I'm getting back into the circular logic and insane reasoning, but just think about these points.
E: Someone was talking about the fact that the universe seemed designed for life. Well, duh. We wouldn't be here to see that if it wasn't. I would have thought that was kind of obvious. This 'phenomenon' and 'proof' of God's existence can also be explained by the multiple universe theory. Say that thousands, maybe infinite numbers of universes are out there, all varying slightly. In this one, conditions worked out just right for this type of life (as the probabilities tell us it must, with infinite universes) and look! Here we are. This theory is just as plausible as the God theory. It has just as many facts to back it up. I'm not saying either way. Which leads into my final point of the night:
F: There very well may be a god out there. I'm not discounting the possibility. This entire argument has been simply to state what I have observed and thought about in my life. However, if there is a god, I honestly don't think he is anything like what ANY religion of the world says he is. Think about this: the Bible states that God is perfect, but ascribes very human characteristics to him: jealousy, anger, revenge, etc. Some of these same emotions we detest in people. So why is it perfect in God? I don't understand that, and I'm not sure that there's an argument to convince me. I view the Bible as yet another myth. No more, and no less, believable than the other thousands of myths floating around in the world.
The end.
P.S. I have read the Bible. Several times. And I attended church for many years. I've studied theology. I've tried to come to an educated conclusion. I then cut the middle out of my King James copy of the Bible and I now store my weed in it. Thank you God. :)
Posted: 8/30/2008 12:34 AM PDT
Lionell you have been ignoring me you naughty boy. It comes soon and it is coming for you. You will see the end of it but only from the awkward position of being held down and tickled by a God. Laughing uncontrolably as the medics stick you with ten and two Halidol and Adivan. It will fade your freedom and your awareness slowly to grey. The clowns will all be wearing pantyhose and big shoes. Painted faces and painted intentions camoflauge frowns and sadistic bent.
Sorry just thought I might paint a rosie picture of how you appear to me. Last time I will tell you, loosen up, for your own soul boy loosen up.
If you can't lord have mercy on your soul.
Sorry just thought I might paint a rosie picture of how you appear to me. Last time I will tell you, loosen up, for your own soul boy loosen up.
If you can't lord have mercy on your soul.
Posted: 8/30/2008 12:36 AM PDT
And the clowns have a thing for sodomy. So be careful, Lionel, and guard your asshole closely if you can't loosen up.
Hahaha.
Hahaha.
Posted: 8/30/2008 12:46 AM PDT
Amen and Hallelujah.
Posted: 8/30/2008 1:02 AM PDT
Styles,
That is an aweful strong scrip to use on somebody who is not sick. And even if someone is actually mentally ill, that is usually reserved for the out-of-control people. I hope you are joking?
I could go off on another tangent with this, but I will refrain from doing so, as it is pointless and unrelated to this thread.
The bell has rung for Round Two. Ding, Ding, Ding!
That is an aweful strong scrip to use on somebody who is not sick. And even if someone is actually mentally ill, that is usually reserved for the out-of-control people. I hope you are joking?
I could go off on another tangent with this, but I will refrain from doing so, as it is pointless and unrelated to this thread.
The bell has rung for Round Two. Ding, Ding, Ding!
Posted: 8/30/2008 1:13 AM PDT
Strong and for the out of control? I wrestled a 140 lb woman for twenty minutes after she received that much. Then she got a 5 and 1 as a sort of cross the T thing. Nighty Night! Joking? Sure I guess if you want to call me on it but it seems so clear to see the future of poor Lionell when I see his kind daily as they are held down by me and injected because some God has tickled them and they can't stop laughing even after they have tried to kill their family. The mind is an amusing thing that way.
Posted: 8/30/2008 2:30 AM PDT
I don't know about the laughing part, but I have seen my share of combative people that that stuff didn't work on. It is my belief that in some cases, God is exactly what these people need, rather than an injection that is going to do no more than make them more angry. Medicine has its place, but so does the Divine Healer that designed the human body and knows it best. I have seen miracle healings, they do exist. I have seen supernatural deliverence. That exists as well. Therefore, if seeing is believing for you folks...I have seen it and that is proof enough for me. So all I ask is that you take this into account when I contribute to this thread. I have more reasons than I care to list for believing as strongly as I do, and a lot of it is based on personal experience. The rest of it is confident faith, not blind faith. I do not know about Lionel, but this is what is true in my case. I have tested teh spirits, I have studied and researched, I have seen miracles, I have had answers to prayers that could only be accomplished by God...because I sure couldn't make it happen on my own in the natural! The supernatural does exist and the fact we cannot understand it with our limited minds that operate in the natural and cannot normally see into the supernatural, is why there is so much doubt and disbelief. That is the simple facts. Spiritual things have to be looked at by the spirit, in a supernatural way. We cannot understand spiritual things otherwise. The Bible states this in many places. We are talking about a God that transcends time and space and the natural world. The supernatural/spirit realm lies on a parallel plane...maybe even in another dimension as we understand it. We cannot cross over into it because of the physical, flesh nature of our bodies. Angels and demons, however can cross over into this realm with no difficulty...they are not limited by physical bodies of flesh and blood. It is almost like a two-way mirror, they see us, but we do not see them except when God gifts us with the gift of Discernment of Spirits. Have I seen demons? Yes. Have I seen angels? Not that I am aware of. Have I seen some freaky things that cannot be explained? Certainly have. The Bible is a living text and it breaths life into my soul. I just wish everyone could experience it for themselves, and then this thread might die.
Thanks for reading this with an open mind.
Thanks for reading this with an open mind.
Posted: 8/30/2008 3:50 AM PDT
So let me get this straight. You are preaching the aspects of a religion that has been cited in God knows (ha ha) how many atrocities throughout human history.
Let me think now, in no particular order:
The denouncement and persecution of Jews as Christ Killers. If Jesus taught us to love and forgive, his message didn't sink in very well here. The Jewish people believe themselves to be God's 'chosen people'. Judaism was around thousands of years prior to Christianity. Did God lie to them about being his people? If indeed the messiah did come, wouldn't God have spoken to the chief rabbi of the fact? Why did he send his Son to suffer? Is this some sort of sado masachist God?
Witch hunts. Thousands of innocent women burned, drowned, or otherwise disposed of in the name of God. "Witches" were denounced everywhere. Some people still believe that they exist as demonic, anti Christian beings today.
Countless wars against the Islamic faith. The crusades form part of this. Two faiths, praying to largely the same God, destroying each other in his name. Not only in this instant, but many times have armies gone to war, each believing they are supported and destined to win by God.
World War 2. Take a look at this, straight from the demons (Hitler's) mouth. "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." So he believed he was fighting God's fight. Countless madmen claim they are guided by God, but something on this scale would surely be worthy of God stepping in. I have heard similar words spoken by terrorists of all religious inclinations.
The destruction of paganism. Isn't this one just completely hypocritical? They persecuted and killed pagans, literally wiping them out, children women and anyone who stood in the way. Then with their beliefs in tatters, stole their holidays to make Christianity fit in with the old ways. That's simply changing dates to suit the masses. Come on now, that's plain lying. This is all from a faith who even debate what day the weekly sabbath actually is, let alone Jesus' supposed year of birth. If this was something so important, then isn't it important to define it? The evidence of the bible would never stand up in court.
The seven deadle sins. Think about it, Christianity is guilty of every single one.
How can I believe in something that cannot be proven. Blind faith would not be an acceptable outlook in many things, why should it be in religion? Everyday humans achieve "Godly" powers, I refer to medicine and genetics. I see no proof that God is controlling our destinies. Isn't that just teasing us? All this stuff that happened in the bible? Why doesn't it happen in modern times? Chrisitianity is aking me to believe, but not proving anything except that it's corrupt, power mad and self-important. If God created us, then he furnished us with free will, the power to evolve, the power of consideration, the ability ot improve ourselves. So if I choose not to believe him, isn't that all in the grand scheme? The choice to be religious should be free will. If your parents bring you up Christian, then the chances are you will be a Christian (at least until you open your eyes.), and that's just believing what someone else tells you to, there is no basis on learnt facts, or personal experiences. I could bring up a child and tell them that the Silmarillion is religious fact, telling someone the bible is, is the same exact thing.
There are many other points to make, but I haven't got all day.
In conclusion my point is:
I'm not completely definitively saying 'there is no God'. What I'm saying is that if he does exist, he is not the God the Christian faith has led us to believe. A faith that has ever evolved and changed GOD'S WORD to suit its own cause. The faith that is shoved in our faces today, is not the faith it was a thousand years ago. This is a much softer, lenient version. Even a hundred years ago the thing was different. Women have been accepted into the church, homosexuals no longer denounced as sinners. How can a true faith change so rapidly? Does God keep changing his mind? Or is the Christian faith simply wrong? The further we move from biblical events (timewise) the more changed the faith becomes. Wouldn't the faith preached nearer the event be the truer account. Even if the bible was originally the true voice of God, then it could easily have been manipulated (undoubtedly) by human hands down the centuries, so it is no longer 'God's Word'.
An entity called "God" is not the one Christians believe in. The Christian faith has been corrupted and manipulated, as has every other faith in the world. Therefore I do not believe in them.
If there is actually a God, then surely he can forgive me for not devoutly believing in human deceit? I live my life as a good person, I have never itentionally hurt someone, I am actually more considerate than a lot of religious people I know. I need no religion to be this way.
If God is judging us, then he can do a lot worse than rewarding the good unreligious souls of the world. I am not going to accept religion, even on my death bed, does that make me inelligible for heaven?
A good soul is damned because he did not believe a factless proposition? That just seems wrong to me.
Maybe there is a God, maybe he even once laid down a religion for us to follow.
If that is so, then the way has been lost.
My longest rant ever is now over.
So now I'm going to commit some sins and never repent.
Let me think now, in no particular order:
The denouncement and persecution of Jews as Christ Killers. If Jesus taught us to love and forgive, his message didn't sink in very well here. The Jewish people believe themselves to be God's 'chosen people'. Judaism was around thousands of years prior to Christianity. Did God lie to them about being his people? If indeed the messiah did come, wouldn't God have spoken to the chief rabbi of the fact? Why did he send his Son to suffer? Is this some sort of sado masachist God?
Witch hunts. Thousands of innocent women burned, drowned, or otherwise disposed of in the name of God. "Witches" were denounced everywhere. Some people still believe that they exist as demonic, anti Christian beings today.
Countless wars against the Islamic faith. The crusades form part of this. Two faiths, praying to largely the same God, destroying each other in his name. Not only in this instant, but many times have armies gone to war, each believing they are supported and destined to win by God.
World War 2. Take a look at this, straight from the demons (Hitler's) mouth. "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." So he believed he was fighting God's fight. Countless madmen claim they are guided by God, but something on this scale would surely be worthy of God stepping in. I have heard similar words spoken by terrorists of all religious inclinations.
The destruction of paganism. Isn't this one just completely hypocritical? They persecuted and killed pagans, literally wiping them out, children women and anyone who stood in the way. Then with their beliefs in tatters, stole their holidays to make Christianity fit in with the old ways. That's simply changing dates to suit the masses. Come on now, that's plain lying. This is all from a faith who even debate what day the weekly sabbath actually is, let alone Jesus' supposed year of birth. If this was something so important, then isn't it important to define it? The evidence of the bible would never stand up in court.
The seven deadle sins. Think about it, Christianity is guilty of every single one.
How can I believe in something that cannot be proven. Blind faith would not be an acceptable outlook in many things, why should it be in religion? Everyday humans achieve "Godly" powers, I refer to medicine and genetics. I see no proof that God is controlling our destinies. Isn't that just teasing us? All this stuff that happened in the bible? Why doesn't it happen in modern times? Chrisitianity is aking me to believe, but not proving anything except that it's corrupt, power mad and self-important. If God created us, then he furnished us with free will, the power to evolve, the power of consideration, the ability ot improve ourselves. So if I choose not to believe him, isn't that all in the grand scheme? The choice to be religious should be free will. If your parents bring you up Christian, then the chances are you will be a Christian (at least until you open your eyes.), and that's just believing what someone else tells you to, there is no basis on learnt facts, or personal experiences. I could bring up a child and tell them that the Silmarillion is religious fact, telling someone the bible is, is the same exact thing.
There are many other points to make, but I haven't got all day.
In conclusion my point is:
I'm not completely definitively saying 'there is no God'. What I'm saying is that if he does exist, he is not the God the Christian faith has led us to believe. A faith that has ever evolved and changed GOD'S WORD to suit its own cause. The faith that is shoved in our faces today, is not the faith it was a thousand years ago. This is a much softer, lenient version. Even a hundred years ago the thing was different. Women have been accepted into the church, homosexuals no longer denounced as sinners. How can a true faith change so rapidly? Does God keep changing his mind? Or is the Christian faith simply wrong? The further we move from biblical events (timewise) the more changed the faith becomes. Wouldn't the faith preached nearer the event be the truer account. Even if the bible was originally the true voice of God, then it could easily have been manipulated (undoubtedly) by human hands down the centuries, so it is no longer 'God's Word'.
An entity called "God" is not the one Christians believe in. The Christian faith has been corrupted and manipulated, as has every other faith in the world. Therefore I do not believe in them.
If there is actually a God, then surely he can forgive me for not devoutly believing in human deceit? I live my life as a good person, I have never itentionally hurt someone, I am actually more considerate than a lot of religious people I know. I need no religion to be this way.
If God is judging us, then he can do a lot worse than rewarding the good unreligious souls of the world. I am not going to accept religion, even on my death bed, does that make me inelligible for heaven?
A good soul is damned because he did not believe a factless proposition? That just seems wrong to me.
Maybe there is a God, maybe he even once laid down a religion for us to follow.
If that is so, then the way has been lost.
My longest rant ever is now over.
So now I'm going to commit some sins and never repent.
Posted: 8/30/2008 4:00 AM PDT
Leland, its almost 4 am and I'm in an argumentative mood, so though I may agree with most of your posts, I'm going to disagree with this one:
You can't blame "Christianity" for the things "Christians" do. People get in wars, and religion is just a way to cover up politics. That's how history goes countless times.
Thus, unfortunatly, we can't blame "God" what people do in his name (ahem *coughLionelcough*), we can only explain to them they are being hypocrites.
You can't blame "Christianity" for the things "Christians" do. People get in wars, and religion is just a way to cover up politics. That's how history goes countless times.
Thus, unfortunatly, we can't blame "God" what people do in his name (ahem *coughLionelcough*), we can only explain to them they are being hypocrites.
Posted: 8/30/2008 4:08 AM PDT
I think Leland is talking more about the things done in the name of Christianity...
Posted: 8/30/2008 4:17 AM PDT
Yeah, but it still seems like that if a people of a certain faith are doing things outside the set rules and guidelines presented to them (i.e. the bible), they aren't really explicitly practicing their faith, only what they interpret to be their faith.
So yes, christians have done countless autrocities throughout the years, but then again, so has every culture known to man. I beleive it's a cultural thing, not just simply christianity
(though i suppose you could argue christianity is more prone to such based on its tendency to be extremely judgemental; this is humorous because it strictly says to avoid this in their bible...)
So yes, christians have done countless autrocities throughout the years, but then again, so has every culture known to man. I beleive it's a cultural thing, not just simply christianity
(though i suppose you could argue christianity is more prone to such based on its tendency to be extremely judgemental; this is humorous because it strictly says to avoid this in their bible...)
Posted: 8/30/2008 5:04 AM PDT
I am merely stating that Christian beliefs do not add up.
If there truly is a religion to practice, then Christianity is not it.
That is what I believe and I think more and more people are realising the fact.
I am not touting the things people have done in the name of Christianity principly to destroy it, although it works well.
I am saying that people have misinterpreted, changed and bastardized what may have once been a valid belief system. The modern church is not the same as it once was. It is rife with corruption and always has been.
Christianity cannot be a valid statement. Not if it can change as fashion dictates.
But then I'm an atheist. If I was to be religious, I think I would tend to side with Judaism more than anything else.
If there truly is a religion to practice, then Christianity is not it.
That is what I believe and I think more and more people are realising the fact.
I am not touting the things people have done in the name of Christianity principly to destroy it, although it works well.
I am saying that people have misinterpreted, changed and bastardized what may have once been a valid belief system. The modern church is not the same as it once was. It is rife with corruption and always has been.
Christianity cannot be a valid statement. Not if it can change as fashion dictates.
But then I'm an atheist. If I was to be religious, I think I would tend to side with Judaism more than anything else.
Posted: 8/30/2008 5:29 AM PDT
"You make it sound as though you believe in something, just maybe not the god that everyone refers to as god. I fall into that category of feeling and being spiritual from within, but not suscribing to religion as it is in its current state."
I know a lot of people like that, myself included, sometimes. In my darker times, I have trouble believing in any higher power. If pressed to label what religin I was, I'm say some form of Agnostic, but more the "I do not know if there is a higher power, but I'm reserving judgement" rather than the traditional "God is unkmowable" stance.
I know a lot of people like that, myself included, sometimes. In my darker times, I have trouble believing in any higher power. If pressed to label what religin I was, I'm say some form of Agnostic, but more the "I do not know if there is a higher power, but I'm reserving judgement" rather than the traditional "God is unkmowable" stance.
Posted: 8/30/2008 6:04 AM PDT
See, that's never really bothered me. Maybe it's just because I'm fairly scietifically minded, but I don't believe that humans are anything more than intelligent animals. I don't think there's anything special about our existence. That doesn't mean I don't believe our existence is a special thing, but I don't think that on the grand scale we're anything different to animals.
Posted: 8/30/2008 6:21 AM PDT
I've told myself from an early age that nothing happens when you die. I find it more comforting than going to heaven, hanging round with Jesus and his crew or going to hell to join Satan and his adorable little friends.
;D
Vaseline?
;D
Vaseline?
Posted: 8/30/2008 10:48 AM PDT
this thread is one of the reasons I will never give up hope in human stubbornness. It makes me laugh, slightly dementedly, but still. This thread is so ridiculous that I can't do anything but laugh about it. What else can you do in the face of such seriosity? It even brought out some seriousness in me. And that is something pretty spectacular.
Christians, just remember to take your towel to heaven with you. They're a bit stingy in that respect, sadly. And it gives you street points with the angels.
Sry for typos. I'm writing this on my iPod and I will never figure out how to type nicely with the keyboard.
Ciao hooligans.
Christians, just remember to take your towel to heaven with you. They're a bit stingy in that respect, sadly. And it gives you street points with the angels.
Sry for typos. I'm writing this on my iPod and I will never figure out how to type nicely with the keyboard.
Ciao hooligans.
Posted: 8/30/2008 12:53 PM PDT
Bstyles,
I didn't know I'd ignored you.
I will take your advice, and open a bottle of wine.
I didn't know I'd ignored you.
I will take your advice, and open a bottle of wine.
Posted: 8/30/2008 1:23 PM PDT
Leland,
I can't imagine where you find your info. Hitler was an atheist. He believed the Arian people were the most evolutionly advanced- and if he could keep them pure, could usher in a SUPER race. He was a great admirer of Darwin, just as Marx. The only differance in their systems was: Hitlers was National socialism, and Marx's was International socialism. Communism's international idea, Hitler saw as a threat to his power and his super race idea.
I realize this is like "Greek" to you, as history has been twisted in academic circles to support a political adgenda.
Example: Right wing of political spectrum -Hitler
Left wing of political spectrum - Stalin A right and left wing Socialism - emagine That.
I would chat more but : Gotta go see the grandkids. Ta ta.
I can't imagine where you find your info. Hitler was an atheist. He believed the Arian people were the most evolutionly advanced- and if he could keep them pure, could usher in a SUPER race. He was a great admirer of Darwin, just as Marx. The only differance in their systems was: Hitlers was National socialism, and Marx's was International socialism. Communism's international idea, Hitler saw as a threat to his power and his super race idea.
I realize this is like "Greek" to you, as history has been twisted in academic circles to support a political adgenda.
Example: Right wing of political spectrum -Hitler
Left wing of political spectrum - Stalin A right and left wing Socialism - emagine That.
I would chat more but : Gotta go see the grandkids. Ta ta.
Posted: 8/30/2008 1:30 PM PDT
Leland,
You have actually echoed some of the points I tried to make earlier. Much of this you mention occurred in the 2nd and 3rd Centuries. That is why MANY of us Christians are trying to get back to a FIRST Century way of doing church and believeing. Constantine is the one who started all of this mess with changing the Holy Days, and worship from Saturday to Sunday...changing from a lunar calendar to a solar calendar, etc. He is also the one who started the Roman Catholic church, which is where you are getting much of your examples of evils from. Sadly, even the protestant church at large is becoming the same way.
You guys might want to invest in the book "Pagan Christianity?" by Frank Viola and George Barna. It will explain quite a bit about how we got to the point we are today and how far the church has strayed from its roots. These are both Christian men that love God and Christ and want to see us all return to the true Christianity of the First Century. It has thousands of footnotes and addresses many of the points made in this post by Leland.
I personally am not concerned with the actual YEAR of Yeshua's birth, just concerned with educating people to the fact that Christmas is a pagan holiday and is NOT the actual birthday of Yeshua. Yeshua was born most likely in October during the Feast of Tabernacles, or Sukkot in the Hebrew. As for Ishtar, er, Easter, don't even get me started. I personally observe Pesach instead (Passover). Why, because that is my conviction and I believe my convictions come From the Holy Spirit, which is God instructing me on how to live and believe. Do I go to church on Sunday? Yes I do. Do I know it is not the true Sabbath? Yes I do. Am I conflicted over this? Yes, I am. I make a CHOICE to go when I go. Will God forgive me for doing this until I am ready and at a point in my life to start going on Saturday instead? Certainly. God meets where we are it, but expects us to learn and grow and be obedient to Him once we know what His will is. That is when the blessings come in. If you choose to celebrate Easter, that is your choice...I am not your judge...I merely wish to educate you as to the reasons it is wrong for a Christ-Follower to do so.
I wish I had the time to answer each one of these points individually, but I do not. The answer to the question about Islam vs, Christianity goes back the Old Testament. It is right there in Black and White...it is an ongoing war between Isaac and Ishmael. The root of the problem is in the story detailing something that happened in Ancient history. It is in the Book of Genesis (The Beginning). the radical Muslims hate Jews worse than Christians. Keep in mind that Christianity was a sect of Judaisn in the First Century. The Apostles were all Jews and so was Yeshua! When you remove the Hebraic roots from the faith, you lose the essence of it. That has been my main point all along. We need to understand where MAN has changed God's intention through Traditions of men and doctrines of men.
One more thing, Jews didn't kill Yeshua, MEN killed Yeshua. The ones that beat Him and nailed Him to the cross were ROMANS...Gentiles, not Jews. The Pharisees feared Him because He was a threat to their system of man-made doctrines and corruption of scripture...which was the Tanak (OLD TESTAMENT). The B'rit Chadashah (New Testament) did not exist at that time and took at least 1400 years to be finally canonized. The Old Testament was already canonized at this time.
Bear in mind, this is being written by a Pentecostal, Protestant, Gentile Messianic believer in Yeshua HaMashiach bat Nazeret (Jesus the Messiah of Nazareth)...a Christ Follower. One who was seen and experienced many things and came back to the Faith after many years of trying or studying the alternatives. I found God and He found me. I have a relationship with the Creator of the Universe and His name is YHVH (Yahweh).
End of post.
You have actually echoed some of the points I tried to make earlier. Much of this you mention occurred in the 2nd and 3rd Centuries. That is why MANY of us Christians are trying to get back to a FIRST Century way of doing church and believeing. Constantine is the one who started all of this mess with changing the Holy Days, and worship from Saturday to Sunday...changing from a lunar calendar to a solar calendar, etc. He is also the one who started the Roman Catholic church, which is where you are getting much of your examples of evils from. Sadly, even the protestant church at large is becoming the same way.
You guys might want to invest in the book "Pagan Christianity?" by Frank Viola and George Barna. It will explain quite a bit about how we got to the point we are today and how far the church has strayed from its roots. These are both Christian men that love God and Christ and want to see us all return to the true Christianity of the First Century. It has thousands of footnotes and addresses many of the points made in this post by Leland.
I personally am not concerned with the actual YEAR of Yeshua's birth, just concerned with educating people to the fact that Christmas is a pagan holiday and is NOT the actual birthday of Yeshua. Yeshua was born most likely in October during the Feast of Tabernacles, or Sukkot in the Hebrew. As for Ishtar, er, Easter, don't even get me started. I personally observe Pesach instead (Passover). Why, because that is my conviction and I believe my convictions come From the Holy Spirit, which is God instructing me on how to live and believe. Do I go to church on Sunday? Yes I do. Do I know it is not the true Sabbath? Yes I do. Am I conflicted over this? Yes, I am. I make a CHOICE to go when I go. Will God forgive me for doing this until I am ready and at a point in my life to start going on Saturday instead? Certainly. God meets where we are it, but expects us to learn and grow and be obedient to Him once we know what His will is. That is when the blessings come in. If you choose to celebrate Easter, that is your choice...I am not your judge...I merely wish to educate you as to the reasons it is wrong for a Christ-Follower to do so.
I wish I had the time to answer each one of these points individually, but I do not. The answer to the question about Islam vs, Christianity goes back the Old Testament. It is right there in Black and White...it is an ongoing war between Isaac and Ishmael. The root of the problem is in the story detailing something that happened in Ancient history. It is in the Book of Genesis (The Beginning). the radical Muslims hate Jews worse than Christians. Keep in mind that Christianity was a sect of Judaisn in the First Century. The Apostles were all Jews and so was Yeshua! When you remove the Hebraic roots from the faith, you lose the essence of it. That has been my main point all along. We need to understand where MAN has changed God's intention through Traditions of men and doctrines of men.
One more thing, Jews didn't kill Yeshua, MEN killed Yeshua. The ones that beat Him and nailed Him to the cross were ROMANS...Gentiles, not Jews. The Pharisees feared Him because He was a threat to their system of man-made doctrines and corruption of scripture...which was the Tanak (OLD TESTAMENT). The B'rit Chadashah (New Testament) did not exist at that time and took at least 1400 years to be finally canonized. The Old Testament was already canonized at this time.
Bear in mind, this is being written by a Pentecostal, Protestant, Gentile Messianic believer in Yeshua HaMashiach bat Nazeret (Jesus the Messiah of Nazareth)...a Christ Follower. One who was seen and experienced many things and came back to the Faith after many years of trying or studying the alternatives. I found God and He found me. I have a relationship with the Creator of the Universe and His name is YHVH (Yahweh).
End of post.
Posted: 8/30/2008 1:30 PM PDT
Leland,
You have actually echoed some of the points I tried to make earlier. Much of this you mention occurred in the 2nd and 3rd Centuries. That is why MANY of us Christians are trying to get back to a FIRST Century way of doing church and believeing. Constantine is the one who started all of this mess with changing the Holy Days, and worship from Saturday to Sunday...changing from a lunar calendar to a solar calendar, etc. He is also the one who started the Roman Catholic church, which is where you are getting much of your examples of evils from. Sadly, even the protestant church at large is becoming the same way.
You guys might want to invest in the book "Pagan Christianity?" by Frank Viola and George Barna. It will explain quite a bit about how we got to the point we are today and how far the church has strayed from its roots. These are both Christian men that love God and Christ and want to see us all return to the true Christianity of the First Century. It has thousands of footnotes and addresses many of the points made in this post by Leland.
I personally am not concerned with the actual YEAR of Yeshua's birth, just concerned with educating people to the fact that Christmas is a pagan holiday and is NOT the actual birthday of Yeshua. Yeshua was born most likely in October during the Feast of Tabernacles, or Sukkot in the Hebrew. As for Ishtar, er, Easter, don't even get me started. I personally observe Pesach instead (Passover). Why, because that is my conviction and I believe my convictions come From the Holy Spirit, which is God instructing me on how to live and believe. Do I go to church on Sunday? Yes I do. Do I know it is not the true Sabbath? Yes I do. Am I conflicted over this? Yes, I am. I make a CHOICE to go when I go. Will God forgive me for doing this until I am ready and at a point in my life to start going on Saturday instead? Certainly. God meets where we are it, but expects us to learn and grow and be obedient to Him once we know what His will is. That is when the blessings come in. If you choose to celebrate Easter, that is your choice...I am not your judge...I merely wish to educate you as to the reasons it is wrong for a Christ-Follower to do so.
I wish I had the time to answer each one of these points individually, but I do not. The answer to the question about Islam vs. Christianity goes back the Old Testament. It is right there in Black and White...it is an ongoing war between Isaac and Ishmael. The root of the problem is in the story detailing something that happened in Ancient history. It is in the Book of Genesis (The Beginning). the radical Muslims hate Jews worse than Christians. Keep in mind that Christianity was a sect of Judaisn in the First Century. The Apostles were all Jews and so was Yeshua! When you remove the Hebraic roots from the faith, you lose the essence of it. That has been my main point all along. We need to understand where MAN has changed God's intention through Traditions of men and doctrines of men.
One more thing, Jews didn't kill Yeshua, MEN killed Yeshua. The ones that beat Him and nailed Him to the cross were ROMANS...Gentiles, not Jews. The Pharisees feared Him because He was a threat to their system of man-made doctrines and corruption of scripture...which was the Tanak (OLD TESTAMENT). The B'rit Chadashah (New Testament) did not exist at that time and took at least 1400 years to be finally canonized. The Old Testament was already canonized at this time.
Bear in mind, this is being written by a Pentecostal, Protestant, Gentile Messianic believer in Yeshua HaMashiach bat Nazeret (Jesus the Messiah of Nazareth)...a Christ Follower. One who was seen and experienced many things and came back to the Faith after many years of trying or studying the alternatives. I found God and He found me. I have a relationship with the Creator of the Universe and His name is YHVH (Yahweh).
End of post.
You have actually echoed some of the points I tried to make earlier. Much of this you mention occurred in the 2nd and 3rd Centuries. That is why MANY of us Christians are trying to get back to a FIRST Century way of doing church and believeing. Constantine is the one who started all of this mess with changing the Holy Days, and worship from Saturday to Sunday...changing from a lunar calendar to a solar calendar, etc. He is also the one who started the Roman Catholic church, which is where you are getting much of your examples of evils from. Sadly, even the protestant church at large is becoming the same way.
You guys might want to invest in the book "Pagan Christianity?" by Frank Viola and George Barna. It will explain quite a bit about how we got to the point we are today and how far the church has strayed from its roots. These are both Christian men that love God and Christ and want to see us all return to the true Christianity of the First Century. It has thousands of footnotes and addresses many of the points made in this post by Leland.
I personally am not concerned with the actual YEAR of Yeshua's birth, just concerned with educating people to the fact that Christmas is a pagan holiday and is NOT the actual birthday of Yeshua. Yeshua was born most likely in October during the Feast of Tabernacles, or Sukkot in the Hebrew. As for Ishtar, er, Easter, don't even get me started. I personally observe Pesach instead (Passover). Why, because that is my conviction and I believe my convictions come From the Holy Spirit, which is God instructing me on how to live and believe. Do I go to church on Sunday? Yes I do. Do I know it is not the true Sabbath? Yes I do. Am I conflicted over this? Yes, I am. I make a CHOICE to go when I go. Will God forgive me for doing this until I am ready and at a point in my life to start going on Saturday instead? Certainly. God meets where we are it, but expects us to learn and grow and be obedient to Him once we know what His will is. That is when the blessings come in. If you choose to celebrate Easter, that is your choice...I am not your judge...I merely wish to educate you as to the reasons it is wrong for a Christ-Follower to do so.
I wish I had the time to answer each one of these points individually, but I do not. The answer to the question about Islam vs. Christianity goes back the Old Testament. It is right there in Black and White...it is an ongoing war between Isaac and Ishmael. The root of the problem is in the story detailing something that happened in Ancient history. It is in the Book of Genesis (The Beginning). the radical Muslims hate Jews worse than Christians. Keep in mind that Christianity was a sect of Judaisn in the First Century. The Apostles were all Jews and so was Yeshua! When you remove the Hebraic roots from the faith, you lose the essence of it. That has been my main point all along. We need to understand where MAN has changed God's intention through Traditions of men and doctrines of men.
One more thing, Jews didn't kill Yeshua, MEN killed Yeshua. The ones that beat Him and nailed Him to the cross were ROMANS...Gentiles, not Jews. The Pharisees feared Him because He was a threat to their system of man-made doctrines and corruption of scripture...which was the Tanak (OLD TESTAMENT). The B'rit Chadashah (New Testament) did not exist at that time and took at least 1400 years to be finally canonized. The Old Testament was already canonized at this time.
Bear in mind, this is being written by a Pentecostal, Protestant, Gentile Messianic believer in Yeshua HaMashiach bat Nazeret (Jesus the Messiah of Nazareth)...a Christ Follower. One who was seen and experienced many things and came back to the Faith after many years of trying or studying the alternatives. I found God and He found me. I have a relationship with the Creator of the Universe and His name is YHVH (Yahweh).
End of post.
Posted: 8/30/2008 8:19 PM PDT
Lionel wrote the following post at 8/30/2008 12:53 PM PT
Bstyles,
I didn't know I'd ignored you.
I will take your advice, and open a bottle of wine.
Do your self a favor my son take the cork from that bottle and insert it into your rectum. When the cork falls out of its own accord you will know you are relaxed enough to pursue life with a little humor. Some people think that the evil side of the equation invented humor I know for a fact that is wrong. I am pleading with you to loosen up. Your soul is constipated god is trying to enter but you have him locked out. I am only trying to edify you before God decides to edifry you. He has patience but righteous rath comes in its own time.
It always seems to go that the stand up prophet is the last one heard.
Edifry: The understanding that comes when the light gets turned on by a massive surge of electricity. (lightning usualy)
Bstyles,
I didn't know I'd ignored you.
I will take your advice, and open a bottle of wine.
Do your self a favor my son take the cork from that bottle and insert it into your rectum. When the cork falls out of its own accord you will know you are relaxed enough to pursue life with a little humor. Some people think that the evil side of the equation invented humor I know for a fact that is wrong. I am pleading with you to loosen up. Your soul is constipated god is trying to enter but you have him locked out. I am only trying to edify you before God decides to edifry you. He has patience but righteous rath comes in its own time.
It always seems to go that the stand up prophet is the last one heard.
Edifry: The understanding that comes when the light gets turned on by a massive surge of electricity. (lightning usualy)
Posted: 8/30/2008 9:03 PM PDT
"Your soul is constipated god is trying to enter but you have him locked out."
God enters people via the anus? Awesome.
God enters people via the anus? Awesome.
Posted: 8/30/2008 9:45 PM PDT
Well christianity has been fucking the masses in the ass for many centuries but at least some one gets my unsubtle sense of humor.
Posted: 8/30/2008 9:50 PM PDT
Dear DekekG,
I'll bet that's a very informative book. The Christmas tree, I've heard, may have resulted from some kind of "grove" worship in Babylon. I have a book: Documents of the Christian Church, (Oxford University Press), by Bettenson & Muander that exibits early church writings and early documents. In it, concerning Sunday worship: Justin 150 A. D. in Documents, pg. 73 writes in "Apology": "We hold our common assembly on the day of the Sun (Sunday), because it is the first day, on which
God put to flight darkness and chaos and made the world, and on the same day Jesus Christ, our savior rose from the dead; for on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday) thay crucified him; and on the day after Saturn's day, the day of the Sun, he appeared to his Apostles and diciples and taught them these things, which we also have handed on to you for your consideration. I'm just passing this on for your Consideration too. I consider one day, probably, as good as another to worship.
I think most of the confusion comes because, many times scripture has a duel message, a historical, or natural message, and sometimes a spiritual one -or both. For instance - confusion in most of Christiandom concerning the promises made to Abraham and his seed. Most people think those promises were made to the whole nation of Israel. Now consider this: Galatians 3:16 "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He sayeth not, to seeds, as of many; but as of one, to thy seed, which is Christ." Then in -Ver. 29: "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Other scripture makes sense knowing this. Like " They are not all Israel that are of Israel but there is a remnant according to the election of grace." - " There is neither Jew nor Greek; there is neither bond or free."-
-" he is not a Jew, that is circumcised outwardly in the flesh, but he is (true) Jew that is one inwardly, who is circumcised in the heart, whose praise is of God and not of men." Then the hardest of all: 1Thess 2:14&15 I want write it. Look it up in your Bible. It seems there is a 'natural" Israel and Jew, and a Spiritual Israel and Jew spoken of in Scripture. Some scripture is addressed to the natural (the nation) and some to Spiritual (Christians - Jew and Gentile). The third Chapter of Galatians clears a lot up about the matter.
One more thing God has quite a few names: Yahweh, of course, but Adoniah, Eloheim, Jehovah, Shiloh, El-Shadiah, for a few. (I may have mis-spelled some).
Any how, I enjoyed reading what you wrote, and agree with most of it.
I'll bet that's a very informative book. The Christmas tree, I've heard, may have resulted from some kind of "grove" worship in Babylon. I have a book: Documents of the Christian Church, (Oxford University Press), by Bettenson & Muander that exibits early church writings and early documents. In it, concerning Sunday worship: Justin 150 A. D. in Documents, pg. 73 writes in "Apology": "We hold our common assembly on the day of the Sun (Sunday), because it is the first day, on which
God put to flight darkness and chaos and made the world, and on the same day Jesus Christ, our savior rose from the dead; for on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday) thay crucified him; and on the day after Saturn's day, the day of the Sun, he appeared to his Apostles and diciples and taught them these things, which we also have handed on to you for your consideration. I'm just passing this on for your Consideration too. I consider one day, probably, as good as another to worship.
I think most of the confusion comes because, many times scripture has a duel message, a historical, or natural message, and sometimes a spiritual one -or both. For instance - confusion in most of Christiandom concerning the promises made to Abraham and his seed. Most people think those promises were made to the whole nation of Israel. Now consider this: Galatians 3:16 "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He sayeth not, to seeds, as of many; but as of one, to thy seed, which is Christ." Then in -Ver. 29: "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Other scripture makes sense knowing this. Like " They are not all Israel that are of Israel but there is a remnant according to the election of grace." - " There is neither Jew nor Greek; there is neither bond or free."-
-" he is not a Jew, that is circumcised outwardly in the flesh, but he is (true) Jew that is one inwardly, who is circumcised in the heart, whose praise is of God and not of men." Then the hardest of all: 1Thess 2:14&15 I want write it. Look it up in your Bible. It seems there is a 'natural" Israel and Jew, and a Spiritual Israel and Jew spoken of in Scripture. Some scripture is addressed to the natural (the nation) and some to Spiritual (Christians - Jew and Gentile). The third Chapter of Galatians clears a lot up about the matter.
One more thing God has quite a few names: Yahweh, of course, but Adoniah, Eloheim, Jehovah, Shiloh, El-Shadiah, for a few. (I may have mis-spelled some).
Any how, I enjoyed reading what you wrote, and agree with most of it.
Posted: 8/30/2008 10:00 PM PDT
You seem a little up tight yourself, my friend. You can't express your self without gutter language.
Maybe you should do a little "beam" searching, like little Miss Fudge.
Maybe you should do a little "beam" searching, like little Miss Fudge.
Posted: 8/30/2008 10:03 PM PDT
Lmao
hahahahahahahha=Pythia that was funny.
hahahahahahahha=Pythia that was funny.
Posted: 8/30/2008 10:04 PM PDT
Bstyles
You seem a little up tight yourself, my friend. You can't express your self without gutter language.
Maybe you should do a little "beam" searching, like little Miss Fudge.
You seem a little up tight yourself, my friend. You can't express your self without gutter language.
Maybe you should do a little "beam" searching, like little Miss Fudge.
Posted: 8/30/2008 11:19 PM PDT
Lionel,
I, for one, am not even qualified to respond in a thoughtful manner to your thread. My life is so far removed from yours that I don't judge you, but rather admire you for your extremity of belief/thought, not unlike the extremity of my actions. I think I'd be a hypocrite to do so.
BUT, I will say that I don't advertise my beliefs (sigh...even though I reveal more of myself on this site) quite as openly as you do. In fact, I think most religious ppl feel the need to "spread the word" so much so that most Americans immediately shut off when they hear it.
In my humble opinion, I believe that simply living, moving and breathing as an example of what you believe is more than sufficient to get your message across. There's A LOT to be said about subtlety, and I don't think it's any less effective than being obtuse.
I, for one, am not even qualified to respond in a thoughtful manner to your thread. My life is so far removed from yours that I don't judge you, but rather admire you for your extremity of belief/thought, not unlike the extremity of my actions. I think I'd be a hypocrite to do so.
BUT, I will say that I don't advertise my beliefs (sigh...even though I reveal more of myself on this site) quite as openly as you do. In fact, I think most religious ppl feel the need to "spread the word" so much so that most Americans immediately shut off when they hear it.
In my humble opinion, I believe that simply living, moving and breathing as an example of what you believe is more than sufficient to get your message across. There's A LOT to be said about subtlety, and I don't think it's any less effective than being obtuse.
Posted: 8/30/2008 11:22 PM PDT
Lionel wrote the following post at 8/30/2008 10:04 PM PT
Bstyles
You seem a little up tight yourself, my friend. You can't express your self without gutter language.
Maybe you should do a little "beam" searching, like little Miss Fudge.
We teach best what we most need to learn.
Bstyles
You seem a little up tight yourself, my friend. You can't express your self without gutter language.
Maybe you should do a little "beam" searching, like little Miss Fudge.
We teach best what we most need to learn.
Posted: 8/30/2008 11:28 PM PDT
Pythia: I told everyone that Jesus invented sodomy. But I guess he got it from his daddy.
Daddy...I...love...unnnngh.....you.......
Fuck. I'm gonna have a mob of pitchfork wielding Christians at my door now...
MY god has a sense of humor and he's laughing at this one right now. Booyah.
Daddy...I...love...unnnngh.....you.......
Fuck. I'm gonna have a mob of pitchfork wielding Christians at my door now...
MY god has a sense of humor and he's laughing at this one right now. Booyah.
Posted: 8/30/2008 11:36 PM PDT
Gutter language?
You mean my crass use of the word FUCK I do apologise for that however I did just kind of respond to the young ladies quip about God and anuses. So for listening in on private conversations you should problably do a little pennance. Oh yes that is right a public forum. Free expression the very thing that allows you to discuss religion here is what allows me for the time being to say anything I care to. As to the afore mentioned word that offends thee it is an acronym for a charge in the British legal system for many years namely Fornicating Under Carnal Knowledge or some such, meaning sex out of wedlock. The term was used by Judges, Lawyers, Police, Members of Parliment in several countries as well as a Queen and a King of Britain. Now if that term is offensive today it was not always. I figure if it was good enough for the Queen to say it or the King it is good enough to pass these lips.
:)
You mean my crass use of the word FUCK I do apologise for that however I did just kind of respond to the young ladies quip about God and anuses. So for listening in on private conversations you should problably do a little pennance. Oh yes that is right a public forum. Free expression the very thing that allows you to discuss religion here is what allows me for the time being to say anything I care to. As to the afore mentioned word that offends thee it is an acronym for a charge in the British legal system for many years namely Fornicating Under Carnal Knowledge or some such, meaning sex out of wedlock. The term was used by Judges, Lawyers, Police, Members of Parliment in several countries as well as a Queen and a King of Britain. Now if that term is offensive today it was not always. I figure if it was good enough for the Queen to say it or the King it is good enough to pass these lips.
:)
Posted: 8/30/2008 11:37 PM PDT
What exactly do you mean by "beam" searching?
Do. Not. EVER. call me "little miss fudge."
I'm not joking. You have NO right to condescend me. None. I called you out on why you were making your own faith look bad. If you can't handle that, fine. But do not think you can debase what I've said through arrogance.
Do. Not. EVER. call me "little miss fudge."
I'm not joking. You have NO right to condescend me. None. I called you out on why you were making your own faith look bad. If you can't handle that, fine. But do not think you can debase what I've said through arrogance.
Posted: 8/30/2008 11:40 PM PDT
Well, sodomy was around long before Jebus.
Posted: 8/30/2008 11:48 PM PDT
hahaha...that reminds me of a movie I TIVO'ed the other night: "The history of the world, part one." It has the "2001: A Space Oddyssey" music in it with a bunch of cavemen jacking off in a circle, captioned with: "our forefathers."
Posted: 8/31/2008 12:14 AM PDT
What one institution has caused most (if not all) of the wars in the western world since it was founded?
Christianity.
Name a war in that wasn't.
Also, I wonder what number is our current Crusade against Islam? I've lost count.
Christianity.
Name a war in that wasn't.
Also, I wonder what number is our current Crusade against Islam? I've lost count.
Posted: 8/31/2008 12:16 AM PDT
Mel Brooks right.
May the schwartz be with you
May the schwartz be with you
Posted: 8/31/2008 12:31 AM PDT
KellyLaurence: It's rarely about the religion,ever; it's always about the politics, and religion is just a tool used by governments to gain support of the working man.
Posted: 8/31/2008 12:34 AM PDT
zomg..."Spaceballs" was one of those movies where I was one of the few laughing in the theatre. The other one was "Dumb and Dumber." My cousin saw it with me and he said it was the worst movie he'd ever seen...lol.
Posted: 8/31/2008 12:39 AM PDT
This thread is taking a horrendously long time to load. Argh.
Posted: 8/31/2008 12:39 AM PDT
War is usualy about commodities bottom line. Oil Food etc..
Religion is a way to enforce cooperation of the populous in a war.
It is not the direct cause but it can keep a war going for years past when it should be over.
Love to chat more but I have to go beat the crap out of a young drunk fellow who just broke into my buddies house.
Laters
Religion is a way to enforce cooperation of the populous in a war.
It is not the direct cause but it can keep a war going for years past when it should be over.
Love to chat more but I have to go beat the crap out of a young drunk fellow who just broke into my buddies house.
Laters
Posted: 8/31/2008 12:43 AM PDT
Really? Until about the 16th century western politics and religion were indistinguishable.
Even today our two parties are split down religious lines. Dem's are pro-choice. Republican's are anti-choice.
I'm not arguing that it's rarely about religion. I agree it is always about politics. How do you seperate the two?
And why support something used to brain wash you?
I'm just asking.
Even today our two parties are split down religious lines. Dem's are pro-choice. Republican's are anti-choice.
I'm not arguing that it's rarely about religion. I agree it is always about politics. How do you seperate the two?
And why support something used to brain wash you?
I'm just asking.
Posted: 8/31/2008 12:47 AM PDT
I have to agree with Kelly on this one.
Posted: 8/31/2008 12:48 AM PDT
heh...I think I just usually vote for the underdog...maybe that explains me voting for Ross Perot in '92...
Posted: 8/31/2008 12:53 AM PDT
Unfortunately, you are right, Kelly: you can't seperate the two (politics and religion) when the two are being used together (the whole reason that the separation of church and state is a wonderful, beautiful, fantastic idea), although I don't think you can say that Democrats and Republicans are black and white.
As to why support something that brain washes you, I can't say. Most people do, however, in many other ways outside of religion, so I am not going to judge people on what they choose to be brainwashed in (although i mourn for children who are forced to beleive something like it is the only truth; went down that road, and it really screws with you if you ever stop beleiving...)
This is my poem (and thus, my thoughts) on the Christian faith:
Oh, honey balm
To man's confuséd soul:
If thou are so holy,
And have so valiantly
Defeated the hand of Death,
Then why do your
Lovers hang you
Still yet upon a tree?
No, my sweet.
I put you in your grave
And cover you in
A silken shroud,
And turn out the lights,
And roll the stone,
And forever wait
For Sweet to wake.
As to why support something that brain washes you, I can't say. Most people do, however, in many other ways outside of religion, so I am not going to judge people on what they choose to be brainwashed in (although i mourn for children who are forced to beleive something like it is the only truth; went down that road, and it really screws with you if you ever stop beleiving...)
This is my poem (and thus, my thoughts) on the Christian faith:
Oh, honey balm
To man's confuséd soul:
If thou are so holy,
And have so valiantly
Defeated the hand of Death,
Then why do your
Lovers hang you
Still yet upon a tree?
No, my sweet.
I put you in your grave
And cover you in
A silken shroud,
And turn out the lights,
And roll the stone,
And forever wait
For Sweet to wake.
Posted: 8/31/2008 12:54 AM PDT
(not posting my poem for feedback, just as an easier way to express myself, so nobody freak out that i put it in a forum!)
Posted: 8/31/2008 12:54 AM PDT
Pythia!
You live up to your name! You really are a sage, a soothsayer!
Why do Catholics eat fish on Friday's during Lent? Cause a Pope had a fish farm that wasn't making a profit.
Nuff said.
You live up to your name! You really are a sage, a soothsayer!
Why do Catholics eat fish on Friday's during Lent? Cause a Pope had a fish farm that wasn't making a profit.
Nuff said.
Posted: 8/31/2008 12:58 AM PDT
heh...nice poem Fudge. Makes me wish I could write poetry...lol.
Posted: 8/31/2008 1:14 AM PDT
Love the poem Fudge! LOVE it!
But you expressed a rationally view of Christianity.
I'm not saying the Democrats and the Repulicans are black and white. Actually, I think they are both evil. I think we need a third party. I'm saying they push certain buttons. The R's push Anti-Choice (oh, sorry, pro-life). the D's push Gun Illegalization (oh, sorry, gun control)
I do think religion is used to control people. I might be biased.
It was used to try and control me. When I was a teenager, "our" preacher had a series of sermons denouncing Science Fiction TV and books as Satanistic. I read even more. The preacher was boinking the organist (hmm, it sounds like a joke, but it's NOT) and I figured he couldn't even tell his wife from the organist! So how could his opinion on books be right?
I worry the majority have not had an AHA! moment and realized they CAN think for themselves. They are locked into the party line. Either party line.
But you expressed a rationally view of Christianity.
I'm not saying the Democrats and the Repulicans are black and white. Actually, I think they are both evil. I think we need a third party. I'm saying they push certain buttons. The R's push Anti-Choice (oh, sorry, pro-life). the D's push Gun Illegalization (oh, sorry, gun control)
I do think religion is used to control people. I might be biased.
It was used to try and control me. When I was a teenager, "our" preacher had a series of sermons denouncing Science Fiction TV and books as Satanistic. I read even more. The preacher was boinking the organist (hmm, it sounds like a joke, but it's NOT) and I figured he couldn't even tell his wife from the organist! So how could his opinion on books be right?
I worry the majority have not had an AHA! moment and realized they CAN think for themselves. They are locked into the party line. Either party line.
Posted: 8/31/2008 1:22 AM PDT
lol....aaaaaww, I know Lionel can't call you it, but can I call you: "little miss fudge?" PLEEEEEEEZE?
Posted: 8/31/2008 3:10 AM PDT
Lionel,
What you say is mostly correct. Thanks for the quote at the beginiing. Another book of interest is "Too Long in the Sun" by Richard Rives. http://www.toolong.com. It will be a little harder to come by, but an interesting read to say the least. This book discusses at length Mithraism and Talmuz and all of the Babylonian influences in the celebration of Easter and Christmas. The Viola book website is: http://www.paganchristianity.org I think. Do a Google and you can find it easy enough.
To clarify a few things: Replacement Theology is wrong. Christianity did not replace Judaism and was never intended to do so. Yeshua's atonement allowed for Gentiles to become a part of His covenant people for the first time. That is how we become partakers of the promises and become "Abraham's seed". One could argue that most Gentiles are a part of the Diaspora anyway, so we were born of Abraham's seed in the natural as well. But that is not the point Shaul (Paul) was trying to make. The point of the matter is simply this: When we accept Yeshua as our Lord and Savior, we are grafted into the Nation of Israel and there is no longer a distinction between Jew and Gentile. We are all God's children regardless of our physical DNA. We will all inherit Eternal Life, if we stay the course and don't Blaspheme the Holy Spirit or become totally apostate. So, yes, we can speak of a Physical Israel and a Spiritual Isreal, but what's the point? God is more concerned about our heart anyway. If we are truly "saved", we are a part of Israel and we should be praying for the "Nation of Israel".
Yes, God has many names. But His PROPER Name is YHVH or YHWH. I AM. Yahweh. The other names represent the characteristics, or nature, of God. El, Elohim, El Elyon, El Shaddai, El Gabor, etc. Each has its proper use. Adonai is a replacement for YHVH, and is also a formal name. Yehovah is an incorrect transliteration of YHVH when vowels are added in. Yehovah Yireh means God my Provider...a description of God's nature given by Abraham.
I hope this clears up a few misunderstandings about God and the Bible.
What you say is mostly correct. Thanks for the quote at the beginiing. Another book of interest is "Too Long in the Sun" by Richard Rives. http://www.toolong.com. It will be a little harder to come by, but an interesting read to say the least. This book discusses at length Mithraism and Talmuz and all of the Babylonian influences in the celebration of Easter and Christmas. The Viola book website is: http://www.paganchristianity.org I think. Do a Google and you can find it easy enough.
To clarify a few things: Replacement Theology is wrong. Christianity did not replace Judaism and was never intended to do so. Yeshua's atonement allowed for Gentiles to become a part of His covenant people for the first time. That is how we become partakers of the promises and become "Abraham's seed". One could argue that most Gentiles are a part of the Diaspora anyway, so we were born of Abraham's seed in the natural as well. But that is not the point Shaul (Paul) was trying to make. The point of the matter is simply this: When we accept Yeshua as our Lord and Savior, we are grafted into the Nation of Israel and there is no longer a distinction between Jew and Gentile. We are all God's children regardless of our physical DNA. We will all inherit Eternal Life, if we stay the course and don't Blaspheme the Holy Spirit or become totally apostate. So, yes, we can speak of a Physical Israel and a Spiritual Isreal, but what's the point? God is more concerned about our heart anyway. If we are truly "saved", we are a part of Israel and we should be praying for the "Nation of Israel".
Yes, God has many names. But His PROPER Name is YHVH or YHWH. I AM. Yahweh. The other names represent the characteristics, or nature, of God. El, Elohim, El Elyon, El Shaddai, El Gabor, etc. Each has its proper use. Adonai is a replacement for YHVH, and is also a formal name. Yehovah is an incorrect transliteration of YHVH when vowels are added in. Yehovah Yireh means God my Provider...a description of God's nature given by Abraham.
I hope this clears up a few misunderstandings about God and the Bible.
Posted: 8/31/2008 3:18 AM PDT
Burrito,
First off, Sodomy was around far before the time Yeshua walked this earth, and in fact is derived from Sodom, which was destroyed by God for this very activity, and it is clear from more than one place in the Bible that this is considered an abomination by God (He finds it disgusting)...your joke fails in its logic.
I am not laughing and neither is YHVH, whom I serve.
First off, Sodomy was around far before the time Yeshua walked this earth, and in fact is derived from Sodom, which was destroyed by God for this very activity, and it is clear from more than one place in the Bible that this is considered an abomination by God (He finds it disgusting)...your joke fails in its logic.
I am not laughing and neither is YHVH, whom I serve.
Posted: 8/31/2008 3:22 AM PDT
Styles,
For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge
For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge
Posted: 8/31/2008 3:28 AM PDT
Kelly,
And what number Jihad is this that has been declared? How many Jihad have been declared in the last 10 years even? How about the last 30? How many wars against Israel alone since 1948?
And what number Jihad is this that has been declared? How many Jihad have been declared in the last 10 years even? How about the last 30? How many wars against Israel alone since 1948?
Posted: 8/31/2008 3:34 AM PDT
For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge
I did same or something I guess this is something :)
I did same or something I guess this is something :)
Posted: 8/31/2008 3:37 AM PDT
HorrorPunk,
I voted for Perot myself, because he was clearly the best candidate. Was I wrong for voting for the Independant? NO. We wouldn't be in the economic mess we are in now if he had won. That is my honest, heartfelt belief.
I voted for Perot myself, because he was clearly the best candidate. Was I wrong for voting for the Independant? NO. We wouldn't be in the economic mess we are in now if he had won. That is my honest, heartfelt belief.
Posted: 8/31/2008 3:39 AM PDT
I can't believe this is still being talked about.
You're never going to change the minds of the God-botherers on here, they have only one line of defence anyway (an old book with an indertiminate history) and they just love the attention. They're never going to change my mind because I follow a different path, so let's just forget it. Religion is on the declione in Western civilization so it will all be irrelevant in the not-too-distant future.
DerekG, shut up! You're now coming across as being anti-homosexual with your comments on sodomy.
Also, what the hell is this "I am not laughing and neither is YHVH, whom I serve." What do you serve him? Breakfast. Get with the programme.
You're never going to change the minds of the God-botherers on here, they have only one line of defence anyway (an old book with an indertiminate history) and they just love the attention. They're never going to change my mind because I follow a different path, so let's just forget it. Religion is on the declione in Western civilization so it will all be irrelevant in the not-too-distant future.
DerekG, shut up! You're now coming across as being anti-homosexual with your comments on sodomy.
Also, what the hell is this "I am not laughing and neither is YHVH, whom I serve." What do you serve him? Breakfast. Get with the programme.
Posted: 8/31/2008 3:44 AM PDT
Yeah, I mean, I know buttsecks isn't eveyrone's cup of tea, but I think destroying a city for it is a leeeetle excessive...
Posted: 8/31/2008 3:51 AM PDT
My buddy is at work and this drunk came and threatened his kids 13-16 I went and did for him though. So the poor bastard never saw it coming. I had him by the neck and I put him down a flight of stairs at a rapid pace. When I got down there I dislocated his right elbow that sobered him up I still got a headache from his screaming. The popping noise was wierd never heard an elbow go before. I done a few knees and some shoulders. Got one guy for both shoulders at the same time once. He pissed and moaned til the ambulance came then he started to fuss a little so I did two of the fingers on his right hand. My son was there at the house he threw up when he saw me do the guys fingers. My friend at the hospital says he will be just fine a a few weeks. The police were not able to attend the call and the paramedics say the fellow slipped and fell down the stairs.
Is God going to punish me for this? My consience is clear and tonight I will sleep like a baby. Am I a psychopath? Sociopath? A sinner? Who are any of you to judge me in my life. I abhor violence I am just exceptionaly good at it. Violence is a tool like any other I just sent a message into that neighborhood. "Don't go there it is an evil place much pain lives there"
Is God going to punish me for this? My consience is clear and tonight I will sleep like a baby. Am I a psychopath? Sociopath? A sinner? Who are any of you to judge me in my life. I abhor violence I am just exceptionaly good at it. Violence is a tool like any other I just sent a message into that neighborhood. "Don't go there it is an evil place much pain lives there"
Posted: 8/31/2008 3:54 AM PDT
Remind me never to annoy you BStyles.
Posted: 8/31/2008 4:02 AM PDT
Kelly,
"When I was a teenager, "our" preacher had a series of sermons denouncing Science Fiction TV and books as Satanistic. I read even more. The preacher was boinking the organist (hmm, it sounds like a joke, but it's NOT) and I figured he couldn't even tell his wife from the organist! So how could his opinion on books be right?"
While I am not saying his views were right, you cannot base your argument against it, simply because he fell into sin. Yes, he needed to be disciplined and restored, assuming he repented. Ministers are men, they have shortcomings. They struggle with temptation liek everyone else. Being ordained does not make you Jesus. Just a man given spiritual authority. I was not there, so I can't judge the situation or the man, and I will not even try to. I would certainly be inclined to leave that church if I had been a member there. Of course, I don't follow the man anyway, I follow the King (Jesus).
The interesting thing about your political examples is this: both parties are trying to prevent murder. They just can't agree on how to do it. However, it is my belief that the democrats have an agenda to slowly remove our constitutional freedoms, so that when the time is right, they can throw the country into a state of Marshal Law...and then they can violate the very "Separation of Church and State" policy they are pushing by forcing a national religion on us. And guess what? It WON'T be Christianity. But first, they have to disarm us so we cannot defend ourselves and chaos will break out, thus giving justification to declare Marshal Law.
Separation of Church and State (in its proper definition) is guaranteed in the First Amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an ESTABLISHMENT of religion, or PROHIBITING the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Therefore, the government cannot prevent anyone from practicing religion, nor than can they force any particular religion on anyone. This whole "Separation of Church and State" crap agenda being pushed in Washington is a violation of both these clauses. Believe it or not, the Christians are the ones suffering the most because of it. If the aetheists want an equal voice, then stop trying to silence the Christians and let us have an equal voice, otherwise you are being just as much a hypocrite as you acuse the Christians of being. Thank you.
That last was not directed at anyone in particular, just a blanket statement of fact.
"When I was a teenager, "our" preacher had a series of sermons denouncing Science Fiction TV and books as Satanistic. I read even more. The preacher was boinking the organist (hmm, it sounds like a joke, but it's NOT) and I figured he couldn't even tell his wife from the organist! So how could his opinion on books be right?"
While I am not saying his views were right, you cannot base your argument against it, simply because he fell into sin. Yes, he needed to be disciplined and restored, assuming he repented. Ministers are men, they have shortcomings. They struggle with temptation liek everyone else. Being ordained does not make you Jesus. Just a man given spiritual authority. I was not there, so I can't judge the situation or the man, and I will not even try to. I would certainly be inclined to leave that church if I had been a member there. Of course, I don't follow the man anyway, I follow the King (Jesus).
The interesting thing about your political examples is this: both parties are trying to prevent murder. They just can't agree on how to do it. However, it is my belief that the democrats have an agenda to slowly remove our constitutional freedoms, so that when the time is right, they can throw the country into a state of Marshal Law...and then they can violate the very "Separation of Church and State" policy they are pushing by forcing a national religion on us. And guess what? It WON'T be Christianity. But first, they have to disarm us so we cannot defend ourselves and chaos will break out, thus giving justification to declare Marshal Law.
Separation of Church and State (in its proper definition) is guaranteed in the First Amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an ESTABLISHMENT of religion, or PROHIBITING the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Therefore, the government cannot prevent anyone from practicing religion, nor than can they force any particular religion on anyone. This whole "Separation of Church and State" crap agenda being pushed in Washington is a violation of both these clauses. Believe it or not, the Christians are the ones suffering the most because of it. If the aetheists want an equal voice, then stop trying to silence the Christians and let us have an equal voice, otherwise you are being just as much a hypocrite as you acuse the Christians of being. Thank you.
That last was not directed at anyone in particular, just a blanket statement of fact.
Posted: 8/31/2008 4:11 AM PDT
Isocracy,
I have long been a supporter of a non-partisan government. I think we should stop labeling our politicians and vote our conscience. We need to stop electing professional politicians and vote in common people who are in touch with reality and won't cave-in to lobbyists. I believe that would solve a lot of problems. Forget about the agendas and actually find out what people really want. Stop being two-faced and quit making promises you know you won't keep.
I have long been a supporter of a non-partisan government. I think we should stop labeling our politicians and vote our conscience. We need to stop electing professional politicians and vote in common people who are in touch with reality and won't cave-in to lobbyists. I believe that would solve a lot of problems. Forget about the agendas and actually find out what people really want. Stop being two-faced and quit making promises you know you won't keep.
Posted: 8/31/2008 4:20 AM PDT
Isocracy wrote the following post at 8/31/2008 03:58 AM PT
LOL, muscle is needed unfortunately and if there was no other action to be taken than a violent one, then your conscience should be clear. The only thing I question is the pridefulness you carry when you talk about these acts. I believe you are a fundamentally sound, and good person(1 month of webook told me that ;) but question the pride you cary in relation to those acts I have heard you say. I was just curious. It is your way supressing stuff?
All craftsmen take pride in their work or they are out of work soon enough.
LOL, muscle is needed unfortunately and if there was no other action to be taken than a violent one, then your conscience should be clear. The only thing I question is the pridefulness you carry when you talk about these acts. I believe you are a fundamentally sound, and good person(1 month of webook told me that ;) but question the pride you cary in relation to those acts I have heard you say. I was just curious. It is your way supressing stuff?
All craftsmen take pride in their work or they are out of work soon enough.
Posted: 8/31/2008 4:20 AM PDT
Pythia,
I'm sorry, but isn't wanting to gang rape a couple of angels a little excessive? That is an extreme perversion. I mean, we see in another story where God destroyed the offspring of humans who had mated with angels. There must be a reason for it, in God's infinite wisdom.
I'm sorry, but isn't wanting to gang rape a couple of angels a little excessive? That is an extreme perversion. I mean, we see in another story where God destroyed the offspring of humans who had mated with angels. There must be a reason for it, in God's infinite wisdom.
Posted: 8/31/2008 4:29 AM PDT
Yeah, stories. That's what they are... Stories.
Anyway, I'm not posting on this anymore. It's gone past its sell-by-date and if I wanted someone to recount the bible to me I'd go to church.
It doesn't matter what happens or what questions are thrown at the bible. They'll just re-interprate it again to fit in with modern ideals.
One final point. Has religion held back the development of science and the progression of man? Definitely. Makes you wonder what stage scientifically we would be at now if it wasn't for the stubborness of religion. How much further would we have progressed if religion either didn't exist, or had encouraged science in earlier centuries.
Last post, now I'm moving on.
Anyway, I'm not posting on this anymore. It's gone past its sell-by-date and if I wanted someone to recount the bible to me I'd go to church.
It doesn't matter what happens or what questions are thrown at the bible. They'll just re-interprate it again to fit in with modern ideals.
One final point. Has religion held back the development of science and the progression of man? Definitely. Makes you wonder what stage scientifically we would be at now if it wasn't for the stubborness of religion. How much further would we have progressed if religion either didn't exist, or had encouraged science in earlier centuries.
Last post, now I'm moving on.
Posted: 8/31/2008 9:26 AM PDT
<sigh> my dealings with religion right now are:
1) How the hell am I going to sit through church w/ a massive hangover?
2) Not looking like crap when I walk in there.
3) Are there any cute chicks at the 10:30 service?
1) How the hell am I going to sit through church w/ a massive hangover?
2) Not looking like crap when I walk in there.
3) Are there any cute chicks at the 10:30 service?
Posted: 8/31/2008 11:06 AM PDT
Horrorpunk,
There are actually churches out there that it doesn't matter what you look like. Sitting through church with a hangover? Not sure how to help that headache, the loud music at the aforementioned church will probably make it worse...or cure it one.
I won't comment on the last one.
There are actually churches out there that it doesn't matter what you look like. Sitting through church with a hangover? Not sure how to help that headache, the loud music at the aforementioned church will probably make it worse...or cure it one.
I won't comment on the last one.
Posted: 8/31/2008 11:11 AM PDT
Leland,
You have nailed on the head the precise reason you find the Bible to be nothing more than fiction...men (denominations, Popes, etc.) have re-interpreted the Bible to fit the culture. The culture has molded the church, rather than the church molding the culture. The church at large caved in to pressure from society to conform to society in order to avoid offending anyone. Their credibility then disappeared. I wonder why? <sic>
You have nailed on the head the precise reason you find the Bible to be nothing more than fiction...men (denominations, Popes, etc.) have re-interpreted the Bible to fit the culture. The culture has molded the church, rather than the church molding the culture. The church at large caved in to pressure from society to conform to society in order to avoid offending anyone. Their credibility then disappeared. I wonder why? <sic>
Posted: 8/31/2008 12:13 PM PDT
To DerekG,
I do agree with some of what you write, and I thank you for your contribution.
The way I see it is: with National Israel, God gave a conditional covenant (a covenant of works - do this, do-not do that, and he blessed them, as a nation, accordingly.) With Christ's sheep, (in Israel and out, from the fall of Adam til the end) God made an unconditional covenant, through the merit of Christ. The conditional covenant of "works" was to show, once and for all, that no-one can redeam himself, but must be redeamed by Christ. And olso, with National Israel, God showed human examples to us of Christ and his redemption. It's so clear with Hosea and Gomer when God, desiring to show his love to Spiritual Israel, told him to marry a woman of whoredom. In the end, gomer became a slave, Hosea bought (redeamed) her back to him. The story of Moses as a "type of Christ": He led them right well, made intercession when they fell, brought them to Caanan's bright meadow. Cain's "work" of his will; the best from his field, could not win him God's favor, but Abel's
"blood" sacrifice; a "typifing" Christ's strife, was to God a sweet smelling savor.
There are many more examples like this, and I guess you know most of them. If you are interested in reading more of them, in rhyme, my poem: "The Consolation of Israel" is printed on my page of webbooks poetry.
Lastly, we should pray for National Israel as we would pray for any lost person, or nation, but not single them out as any more special in God's eyes as a Nation, they are a nation and people who don't believe in Christ. The apostle Paul a natural Jew, and a Spirital Jew, in Christ, said: there is no longer Jew nor Greek, etc. Meaning, (I think) God no longer makes a distinction. Now the help, as a Nation, we give to an ally, is another thing altogether..
God bless.
I do agree with some of what you write, and I thank you for your contribution.
The way I see it is: with National Israel, God gave a conditional covenant (a covenant of works - do this, do-not do that, and he blessed them, as a nation, accordingly.) With Christ's sheep, (in Israel and out, from the fall of Adam til the end) God made an unconditional covenant, through the merit of Christ. The conditional covenant of "works" was to show, once and for all, that no-one can redeam himself, but must be redeamed by Christ. And olso, with National Israel, God showed human examples to us of Christ and his redemption. It's so clear with Hosea and Gomer when God, desiring to show his love to Spiritual Israel, told him to marry a woman of whoredom. In the end, gomer became a slave, Hosea bought (redeamed) her back to him. The story of Moses as a "type of Christ": He led them right well, made intercession when they fell, brought them to Caanan's bright meadow. Cain's "work" of his will; the best from his field, could not win him God's favor, but Abel's
"blood" sacrifice; a "typifing" Christ's strife, was to God a sweet smelling savor.
There are many more examples like this, and I guess you know most of them. If you are interested in reading more of them, in rhyme, my poem: "The Consolation of Israel" is printed on my page of webbooks poetry.
Lastly, we should pray for National Israel as we would pray for any lost person, or nation, but not single them out as any more special in God's eyes as a Nation, they are a nation and people who don't believe in Christ. The apostle Paul a natural Jew, and a Spirital Jew, in Christ, said: there is no longer Jew nor Greek, etc. Meaning, (I think) God no longer makes a distinction. Now the help, as a Nation, we give to an ally, is another thing altogether..
God bless.
Posted: 8/31/2008 5:49 PM PDT
HorrorPunk:
since you ask, yes, of course you can call me little miss fudge =] it sounds much better from the dominatrix protégée than the absolutist christian
since you ask, yes, of course you can call me little miss fudge =] it sounds much better from the dominatrix protégée than the absolutist christian
Posted: 9/1/2008 8:26 PM PDT
Dear Leland,
If you care to do a little research, you'll find most of the great scientists, and discoverers of the past were Christians. It's just in this modern age, after Darwin, that most scientists seem to be non-christian, and have gone off the deep end, chasing theories.
Don't the fact that the Christianized western world advanced dramatically in every way over the last millennium, while the rest of the world remained in poverty and backwardness, and is just now catching up - by adopting the inventions, technology, and other advances of the west - tell (even) you anything? The Christianized western world has led the rest of the world in wealth, power, freedom, and intelligence for 1500 years. But, that was just a fluke, I suppose. Huh?
Without Christian influence,, you would have advanced all right - right back to the stone age. And, by the way, Christianity started with Adam: Adam's fig leaf typified his work in brief, an attempt his sinfulness to cover, but the blood sacrificed skin atoned the sin, covering it rightfully all over. The blood of the sacrificial goat; Israel's great hope, was "spotless, a type of perfection; This sheds light on a redeamer of might, bestowing a sinless connection. When I see the blood, I'll pass over you is "metaphoric too; This is Christ's passion being shown. The Egyptians paid a price with a useless sacrifice; they had no Savior to atone.
So, I say: About the other religions that have similarities to Christianity, that you sceptics think Christianity got its ideas from - I'm telling you - it was the other way around.
Not that I would suppose to convince you, but I'm just giving an answer. " Be ye ever ready to give an answer for the hope that lieth within you."
If you care to do a little research, you'll find most of the great scientists, and discoverers of the past were Christians. It's just in this modern age, after Darwin, that most scientists seem to be non-christian, and have gone off the deep end, chasing theories.
Don't the fact that the Christianized western world advanced dramatically in every way over the last millennium, while the rest of the world remained in poverty and backwardness, and is just now catching up - by adopting the inventions, technology, and other advances of the west - tell (even) you anything? The Christianized western world has led the rest of the world in wealth, power, freedom, and intelligence for 1500 years. But, that was just a fluke, I suppose. Huh?
Without Christian influence,, you would have advanced all right - right back to the stone age. And, by the way, Christianity started with Adam: Adam's fig leaf typified his work in brief, an attempt his sinfulness to cover, but the blood sacrificed skin atoned the sin, covering it rightfully all over. The blood of the sacrificial goat; Israel's great hope, was "spotless, a type of perfection; This sheds light on a redeamer of might, bestowing a sinless connection. When I see the blood, I'll pass over you is "metaphoric too; This is Christ's passion being shown. The Egyptians paid a price with a useless sacrifice; they had no Savior to atone.
So, I say: About the other religions that have similarities to Christianity, that you sceptics think Christianity got its ideas from - I'm telling you - it was the other way around.
Not that I would suppose to convince you, but I'm just giving an answer. " Be ye ever ready to give an answer for the hope that lieth within you."
Posted: 9/1/2008 8:44 PM PDT
DerekG,
I would agree with what you say, IF you had said: "some of the churches", or maybe, "most of the churches". But, I wouldn't "tar" all with the same brush. The Bible addresses this, about: " men that crept in unaware and changed the image of our Lord like unto an image of sinful man, etc", and also" many will say to me in that day: Lord, have we not preached in thy name, and prophesied, and cast out devels, etc. And "I will say to them: depart from me, ye that WORK iniquity, I never knew you."
I would agree with what you say, IF you had said: "some of the churches", or maybe, "most of the churches". But, I wouldn't "tar" all with the same brush. The Bible addresses this, about: " men that crept in unaware and changed the image of our Lord like unto an image of sinful man, etc", and also" many will say to me in that day: Lord, have we not preached in thy name, and prophesied, and cast out devels, etc. And "I will say to them: depart from me, ye that WORK iniquity, I never knew you."
Posted: 9/1/2008 9:02 PM PDT
Miss Fudge,
I didn't mean that derogatorily. You seem to have much animosity in you. Search for a good church and, "ye shall find it."
Sincerely,
The Absolutist
I didn't mean that derogatorily. You seem to have much animosity in you. Search for a good church and, "ye shall find it."
Sincerely,
The Absolutist
Posted: 9/2/2008 5:03 AM PDT
Lionel,
I did say "The church at large"...which implies not all churches but "most".
I did say "The church at large"...which implies not all churches but "most".
Posted: 9/2/2008 5:58 PM PDT
DerekG,
I interprited "at large" as: as a whole. I'm glad you meant it as you explained.
God bless.
I interprited "at large" as: as a whole. I'm glad you meant it as you explained.
God bless.
Posted: 9/2/2008 7:37 PM PDT
OK OK OK....new subtopic, same basic subject: What would your take be on someone being religious and writing explicit horror stories? Would there be a conflict of 'interest' there? Is that something to be ashamed of, given the duality of the two activities?
Posted: 9/3/2008 5:22 AM PDT
HP,
This depends on what you mean by "being religious". I am a Christ-follower, but I would not call myself "Religious", in the sense that I am not caught up in a bunch of dead ritual for the sake of ritual. Everything I do has a purpose in worship. I consider myself more "Spiritual" than "Religious". I am more concerned about my relationship with God on the inside, than how it looks on the outside...I live by example, so don't misunderstand what I am saying. Why put on a religious "show" and pretend you are "super Christian" just to impress people, when all God cares about is your heart. He knows your heart better than you do. You can fool people, but you can't fool God. Why be a poser? No human is perfect, we all have struggles.
Now, all that being said, if you are trying to live a life pleasing to God and be an example to others of the Christian life, I would advise against this. There are many reasons for this:
1. It is a bad witness.
2. It opens doors to demonic activities in your life, and allows Satan to gain footholds in your life. This leads to spiritual harm and sin. It may even affect you physically.
3. The scripture says "We are to be IN this world, but not OF this world". The fascination with the occult is very dangerous and involvement with the occult, even more so. Everything we watch or listen to has an affect on us. We should be setting an example, rather than conforming to the world and looking like the world.
The only exception to this would be if you are writing apocolyptic literature with a Biblical message behind it, and the violence had to be graphic in order to get the point across. The Apocolypse of Peter would be a good example of this. Even Dante's Inferno would qualify under this category. The Tim LaHaye books are mild, but still have some elements of this.
The point is, is there a redemptive message to it and does it glorify God? Or, is it just gratuitous violence for the sake of violence (gore, fear)? If it is the second one, then the answer is no, there is no place for it in your life.
One final note...demons can inhabit inanimate objects just as they can people. Be careful what you bring into, and keep, in your house. This is especially true of statues of Buddha, Indian gods, etc.
You asked. Hope this helps, and I hope I have answered your question clearly.
This depends on what you mean by "being religious". I am a Christ-follower, but I would not call myself "Religious", in the sense that I am not caught up in a bunch of dead ritual for the sake of ritual. Everything I do has a purpose in worship. I consider myself more "Spiritual" than "Religious". I am more concerned about my relationship with God on the inside, than how it looks on the outside...I live by example, so don't misunderstand what I am saying. Why put on a religious "show" and pretend you are "super Christian" just to impress people, when all God cares about is your heart. He knows your heart better than you do. You can fool people, but you can't fool God. Why be a poser? No human is perfect, we all have struggles.
Now, all that being said, if you are trying to live a life pleasing to God and be an example to others of the Christian life, I would advise against this. There are many reasons for this:
1. It is a bad witness.
2. It opens doors to demonic activities in your life, and allows Satan to gain footholds in your life. This leads to spiritual harm and sin. It may even affect you physically.
3. The scripture says "We are to be IN this world, but not OF this world". The fascination with the occult is very dangerous and involvement with the occult, even more so. Everything we watch or listen to has an affect on us. We should be setting an example, rather than conforming to the world and looking like the world.
The only exception to this would be if you are writing apocolyptic literature with a Biblical message behind it, and the violence had to be graphic in order to get the point across. The Apocolypse of Peter would be a good example of this. Even Dante's Inferno would qualify under this category. The Tim LaHaye books are mild, but still have some elements of this.
The point is, is there a redemptive message to it and does it glorify God? Or, is it just gratuitous violence for the sake of violence (gore, fear)? If it is the second one, then the answer is no, there is no place for it in your life.
One final note...demons can inhabit inanimate objects just as they can people. Be careful what you bring into, and keep, in your house. This is especially true of statues of Buddha, Indian gods, etc.
You asked. Hope this helps, and I hope I have answered your question clearly.
Posted: 9/3/2008 11:34 AM PDT
DerekG,
Excellent reply.
The motive counts more than the act.
I remember reading something like this, in the Bible: - In all that you do; do it for the glory of God.
Excellent reply.
The motive counts more than the act.
I remember reading something like this, in the Bible: - In all that you do; do it for the glory of God.
Posted: 9/3/2008 12:07 PM PDT
DerekG,
By the way, If you want to read an excellent Theologan, go to: OldDesign Homepage.
By the way, If you want to read an excellent Theologan, go to: OldDesign Homepage.
Posted: 9/3/2008 9:27 PM PDT
Are there any Christians that believe there may be more than one 'path' to God?
Posted: 9/3/2008 10:36 PM PDT
OK, so it sounds like a traditional church isn't where you guys practice Christianity. But isn't there something to be said about fellowship? Sharing your love for God and witnessing the Word?
Posted: 9/3/2008 11:02 PM PDT
Hmmmmm...I guess valuing fellowship is only really important if you assume you can advance yourself spiritually. If you believe you're fine the way you are, then I suppose there really wouldn't be any point.
Posted: 9/3/2008 11:17 PM PDT
Also, not slighting anyone else, but I think it's a grave mistake to believe that you yourself can understand everything about a religion. If you don't subscribe to a particular religion and get leadership to point you in the right direction, you run the chance of easily corrupting what God intended. But also assume that you actually do follow what God wants, wouldn't you advance at a more exponential rate if you sought guidance? Theologians have studied religion for centuries...how can you expect to match that?
Posted: 9/4/2008 12:15 AM PDT
Lionel says "you will find popularity in plasphemy"...
I'm not in college to be a PLAStic surgeon so I don't participate in plasphemy.... I actually go there to accpet new ideas, and learn... You know the saying it is never too late to learn?
Well you fit the "An old dog can't learn new tricks" bill.
Kind of ignorant but I guess you get your point across.
Wow these posts have gotten way to long...If you are going to make a bible/religious battle in chat at least keep it mildly short for the busy people....way too hard to catch up.
Do you need some more jokes?
A little break from the storm?
What are your beliefs on other religions lionel?
I know a bit about most religions...I haven't quite tied myself to one yet.
I do believe there is a higher power...So far I just kinda cut out the middle man.
I'm not in college to be a PLAStic surgeon so I don't participate in plasphemy.... I actually go there to accpet new ideas, and learn... You know the saying it is never too late to learn?
Well you fit the "An old dog can't learn new tricks" bill.
Kind of ignorant but I guess you get your point across.
Wow these posts have gotten way to long...If you are going to make a bible/religious battle in chat at least keep it mildly short for the busy people....way too hard to catch up.
Do you need some more jokes?
A little break from the storm?
What are your beliefs on other religions lionel?
I know a bit about most religions...I haven't quite tied myself to one yet.
I do believe there is a higher power...So far I just kinda cut out the middle man.
Posted: 9/4/2008 12:15 AM PDT
Lionel says "you will find popularity in plasphemy"...
I'm not in college to be a PLAStic surgeon so I don't participate in plasphemy.... I actually go there to accpet new ideas, and learn... You know the saying it is never too late to learn?
Well you fit the "An old dog can't learn new tricks" bill.
Kind of ignorant but I guess you get your point across.
Wow these posts have gotten way to long...If you are going to make a bible/religious battle in chat at least keep it mildly short for the busy people....way too hard to catch up.
Do you need some more jokes?
A little break from the storm?
What are your beliefs on other religions lionel?
I know a bit about most religions...I haven't quite tied myself to one yet.
I do believe there is a higher power...So far I just kinda cut out the middle man.
I'm not in college to be a PLAStic surgeon so I don't participate in plasphemy.... I actually go there to accpet new ideas, and learn... You know the saying it is never too late to learn?
Well you fit the "An old dog can't learn new tricks" bill.
Kind of ignorant but I guess you get your point across.
Wow these posts have gotten way to long...If you are going to make a bible/religious battle in chat at least keep it mildly short for the busy people....way too hard to catch up.
Do you need some more jokes?
A little break from the storm?
What are your beliefs on other religions lionel?
I know a bit about most religions...I haven't quite tied myself to one yet.
I do believe there is a higher power...So far I just kinda cut out the middle man.
Posted: 9/4/2008 12:30 AM PDT
That's exactly it. Organised religion is like middle management.
Posted: 9/4/2008 2:13 AM PDT
Pythia,
Aren't all religions "organized religion", at least to some degree? Or is your issue not with the beliefs, but the "Institution"? The structure, the government of it.
For the record, "the church" was never intended to be what it has become. It was not begun as an Institution, but as a community. "Christianity", as we know it, was invented by Constantine. It is steeped in ancient Roman forms of government and heirarchy and rhetoric. Just look at the evolution of the Roman Catholic church and you will see this to be true. Sadly, most protestant groups are still...Roman Catholic...in many ways.
Aren't all religions "organized religion", at least to some degree? Or is your issue not with the beliefs, but the "Institution"? The structure, the government of it.
For the record, "the church" was never intended to be what it has become. It was not begun as an Institution, but as a community. "Christianity", as we know it, was invented by Constantine. It is steeped in ancient Roman forms of government and heirarchy and rhetoric. Just look at the evolution of the Roman Catholic church and you will see this to be true. Sadly, most protestant groups are still...Roman Catholic...in many ways.
Posted: 9/4/2008 2:21 AM PDT
"Are there any Christians that believe there may be more than one 'path' to God? "
The only "path" to God is through His son Yeshua (Jesus). You must believe it in your heart and confess it with your mouth. Where you fellowship doesn't matter to God, only that you accept the free gift of salvation offered by the atonement on the cross and confess that Jesus is Lord, and truly believe it in your heart. You must also live a life that honors God, bearing the Fruit of the Spirit as you grow in your walk. If you are living no better than the heathen, then you are not being a light, and people will doubt that you are truly changed. If you are saved, you are a new creation...and it will be evident to those who knew you before.
The only "path" to God is through His son Yeshua (Jesus). You must believe it in your heart and confess it with your mouth. Where you fellowship doesn't matter to God, only that you accept the free gift of salvation offered by the atonement on the cross and confess that Jesus is Lord, and truly believe it in your heart. You must also live a life that honors God, bearing the Fruit of the Spirit as you grow in your walk. If you are living no better than the heathen, then you are not being a light, and people will doubt that you are truly changed. If you are saved, you are a new creation...and it will be evident to those who knew you before.
Posted: 9/4/2008 5:45 AM PDT
"The only "path" to God is through His son Yeshua (Jesus)."
I don't believe that. I think that you ned to find your own way to God, or whatever deity you may happen to believe in, regardless of what some ancient, flawed, badly translated book says.
And yes, I meant I have a problem with the 'institution' of religion, if you will. I have nothing against anyone believing in a god or a higher being.
I don't believe that. I think that you ned to find your own way to God, or whatever deity you may happen to believe in, regardless of what some ancient, flawed, badly translated book says.
And yes, I meant I have a problem with the 'institution' of religion, if you will. I have nothing against anyone believing in a god or a higher being.
Posted: 9/4/2008 5:49 AM PDT
My Husband writes letters to Jesus for me. It's hillarious.
My catch phrase when I'm exhasperated is "DEAR JESUS". So now everytime I say it he picks up in his best flaming homosexual voice with something like:
DEAR JESUS:
Rachel has just bumped her toe. It really hurt. Hope she doesn't have to amputate. I really like her feet.
Love Vincent.
It usually makes me laugh my ass off.
My catch phrase when I'm exhasperated is "DEAR JESUS". So now everytime I say it he picks up in his best flaming homosexual voice with something like:
DEAR JESUS:
Rachel has just bumped her toe. It really hurt. Hope she doesn't have to amputate. I really like her feet.
Love Vincent.
It usually makes me laugh my ass off.
Posted: 9/4/2008 7:21 AM PDT
Hahahahahahaaaa. That's adorable. God, I miss the silly things like that in a relationship.
Posted: 9/4/2008 7:34 AM PDT
That's friggin hilarious, Jinx. Hubby sounds funny as hell.
Posted: 9/5/2008 2:51 PM PDT
horrorpunk,
Christ said: "I am the truth, the way, and the life; No man cometh to the Father, but by me." Now, either he is a fraud, or there is no other way.
Christ said: "I am the truth, the way, and the life; No man cometh to the Father, but by me." Now, either he is a fraud, or there is no other way.
Posted: 9/5/2008 3:06 PM PDT
Isocracy,
You can't judge God by what men do. Man still has the flesh to wrestle with after he's quickened spiritually. King David is a good example. Hosea's wife, Gomer too. The battle inside begins when God quickens one to spiritual life. It's called growth in grace. I dare say, the accuser is more the sinner than the accused, in most cases.
You can't judge God by what men do. Man still has the flesh to wrestle with after he's quickened spiritually. King David is a good example. Hosea's wife, Gomer too. The battle inside begins when God quickens one to spiritual life. It's called growth in grace. I dare say, the accuser is more the sinner than the accused, in most cases.
Posted: 9/5/2008 3:31 PM PDT
Count Vlad,
There are only two religions: 1. Works. This is where men earn there salvation by pleasing God; kinda putting him in debt to them by "obeying" -which none really can. These are exampled by the selfrighteous Pharasees. You heard about the Pharasee and the publican going into the temple to pray. You can see which one had grace by the way they came to God. 2. Grace (unmerited favor) is the other; exemplified many ways in scripture. The most plain, to me, of them all are the dead dry bones God showed Ezekiel.
God told Ezekiel - "Can these bones live?" "Prophesy (preach) to them". They didn't move. And, then it says -the wind blew, and they came alive. Now, put that with: "the wind bloweth where it listeth, and no man telleth whither it commeth, or whither it goeth; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit." And there are many others, such as: "ye hath He quickened who were dead (spiritually), etc. I hope this helps a little.
There are only two religions: 1. Works. This is where men earn there salvation by pleasing God; kinda putting him in debt to them by "obeying" -which none really can. These are exampled by the selfrighteous Pharasees. You heard about the Pharasee and the publican going into the temple to pray. You can see which one had grace by the way they came to God. 2. Grace (unmerited favor) is the other; exemplified many ways in scripture. The most plain, to me, of them all are the dead dry bones God showed Ezekiel.
God told Ezekiel - "Can these bones live?" "Prophesy (preach) to them". They didn't move. And, then it says -the wind blew, and they came alive. Now, put that with: "the wind bloweth where it listeth, and no man telleth whither it commeth, or whither it goeth; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit." And there are many others, such as: "ye hath He quickened who were dead (spiritually), etc. I hope this helps a little.
Posted: 9/5/2008 3:39 PM PDT
DerekG,
I sure do appreciate you. Thanks for being here.
I would add only one thing to what you've written. If you are living no better than the heathen, not only will people doubt your salvation, but you will also. And there is no more horrible condition for a child of God.
I sure do appreciate you. Thanks for being here.
I would add only one thing to what you've written. If you are living no better than the heathen, not only will people doubt your salvation, but you will also. And there is no more horrible condition for a child of God.
Posted: 9/5/2008 3:43 PM PDT
Pythia,
Find your own way? Obey the law perfectly? Who can do that? " There is none other name under heaven whereby we must be saved."
Find your own way? Obey the law perfectly? Who can do that? " There is none other name under heaven whereby we must be saved."
