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WEbook Forums > The Water Cooler > Politics and Current Events > Tortue of people detained by the US
Discuss, examine, and rant and rave about the news of the day.
Posted: 8/21/2010 1:25 AM PDT
One-two, three-four!
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Posted: 8/20/2010 4:35 PM PDT
Left, right, left, right, left...
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Posted: 8/16/2010 9:44 AM PDT
Right.
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Posted: 7/6/2010 4:17 PM PDT
Or forget how to spell 'lose'.
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Posted: 7/6/2010 2:53 PM PDT
You never forget how old you are, until you loose your mind. Or you join webook.
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Posted: 7/6/2010 2:34 PM PDT
I bet it's packed full of nukes. The base on Guam, not the pastries. To get the Chinese before they get us. Or to vapourise North Korea, before... well, just to vapourise North Korea in general. And I am 16. And although I'm not really an emotional person, you'd be surprised how emotional some teenage boys are. Stupid emos. I'm more hardcore punk myself. But not so much ska. Or pogo dancing. And the music is a bit more complicated than the Sex Pistols. They were famous for knowing about six chords each. The bassist for the Clash couldn't even play bass at first. He was supposed to be the singer, but he was crap. How do you forget what age you are. I'd understand if you thought you were 15, because you have been for a year, but not 17, which you have never been...
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Posted: 6/8/2010 1:40 PM PDT
Good night.
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Posted: 6/8/2010 1:37 PM PDT
Well I'm bout to drown in tiredness. talk to you soon. :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :):) ):):)
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Posted: 6/8/2010 1:35 PM PDT
It's true. Pastries and chocolate have made me the man I am. Or, actually, my waist the way it is. But I'm working hard at decreasing it. Actually, several colds this winter made my waist the way it is.
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Posted: 6/8/2010 1:32 PM PDT
What?! do you really? I don't beleive you! :)
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Posted: 6/8/2010 1:31 PM PDT
I'm pleased you enjoy honey buttered apricot tarts! I like them, too.
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Posted: 6/8/2010 1:29 PM PDT
MMM. chocolate truffles and honey buttered apricot tarts! they're my favorite!! :)
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Posted: 6/8/2010 1:27 PM PDT
No, you're not. Good for you. Hope you have a great birthday. Eat lots of chocolate truffles.
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Posted: 6/8/2010 1:25 PM PDT
I meant 16. sorry. I forget. ugh. I such a dunce at times.
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Posted: 6/8/2010 1:24 PM PDT
He's a teenager!!?? whaaaa- that's news. Oh my birthday this friday!! I'll be 17. Im so excited.
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Posted: 6/8/2010 1:23 PM PDT
Not much of what he'd have to say would be pleasant to either of us. Being a teenage boy he hates emotionalism.
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Posted: 6/8/2010 1:22 PM PDT
Thank you...I wonder where Dorchadas is? I should be sleeping too if he's in the same time zone as me. If he were here to read this He'd surely have something to say. lol. :)
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Posted: 6/8/2010 1:20 PM PDT
Well, you have a friend here. I'll do my best to bring you some joy.
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Posted: 6/8/2010 1:17 PM PDT
i had joy. once. When my mum and papa were still about. But now I'm strewn all over the world. Either because of My papa's job or my mum's. :( I rarely have relationships for that reason.
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Posted: 6/8/2010 1:15 PM PDT
Life is too nice to be worried all the time. Wish I could bring some joy to your life.
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Posted: 6/8/2010 1:12 PM PDT
My friend ...My life is all worries,
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Posted: 6/8/2010 1:08 PM PDT
It's okay. :) No worries.
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Posted: 6/8/2010 1:03 PM PDT
:P < thats me sticking my tongue at you, you knob! lol. nevermind... :(
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Posted: 6/8/2010 1:01 PM PDT
Glad you do.
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Posted: 6/8/2010 1:00 PM PDT
Oh. He's quite the Idol. lol. I do like that you call me LIZ> :)
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Posted: 6/8/2010 12:55 PM PDT
Sorry, LIZ, I'm not good with puzzles.
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Posted: 6/8/2010 12:02 PM PDT
I'm still surprised you haven't figured out who my father is...surely enough you'd know who I am if you did.
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Posted: 6/8/2010 12:01 PM PDT
I've heard of that base. My father talks about it last time ------------ was here on a meeting. They are still in use of it. And it's there for an emergency base for if war was to break out. Ah!! i really can't ferther stress it. I'd be killed by my father if he heard. But know that both You and JDLee are on to more then you think :)
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Posted: 6/8/2010 6:30 AM PDT
Why? Don't they export anything?
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Posted: 6/7/2010 6:08 PM PDT
It's also the primary employer for the people of Guam.
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Posted: 6/7/2010 6:07 PM PDT
There still is a base there and it's used mostly for Search and Rescue missions, for refueling, and for weather research.
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Posted: 6/7/2010 12:43 PM PDT
So why exactly was there still a base in Guam? Just to keep tabs on the region? Or did it have something to do with containment of Communism?
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Posted: 6/7/2010 1:12 AM PDT
Exactly.
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Posted: 6/6/2010 4:40 AM PDT
I didn't know that. I guess that's why he still believed the war was on, because he would have saw the base as part of an occupation force's supply line.
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Posted: 6/5/2010 10:22 PM PDT
You're missing the point. There's a huge United States Air Force base on Guam. Has been since 1945. He used to still food from the base's garbage bins.
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Posted: 6/4/2010 1:48 PM PDT
Well, there were large passenger planes before 1940. And jets aren't immediatly visible on distant planes. So I'm thinking they looked like planes to him.
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Posted: 6/4/2010 1:30 PM PDT
Several, actually. Some in New Guinea, some on remote islands bypassed by the United States, and one on Guam. Man, what jet aircraft flying from that tiny island must have seemed like to him!
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Posted: 6/3/2010 7:09 AM PDT
Wasn't there some Japanese soldier who went into hiding during the war and didn't surrender until like 1980 or something?
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Posted: 6/3/2010 2:08 AM PDT
Taswegan, the Japanese NEVER ate anyone in New Guinea. But some of the Diggers might have.
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Posted: 6/3/2010 2:06 AM PDT
Really?
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Posted: 3/24/2010 5:50 PM PST
Sorry, I'm a little behind the times.
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Posted: 3/24/2010 5:48 PM PST
I thought MacArthur proposed to aggresivly push into China and roll back Communism there, before it cemeted its power. That certainly sounds plausible, given the speed at which North Korea's line was pushed back. THey probably would have counted on having the support of the people too. I didn't think he proposed to drop an atom bomb above the 38th parallel. That's insane. It sounds like colonialism except using the threat of nuclear obliteration instead of colonies.
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Posted: 3/14/2010 3:33 AM PST
I've read you post a couple of time now Tom and I think I agree with you on the whole. We in Australia had a lot of Italians living here prior to WW2 so we rounded them up and placed them in prisoner of war camps. They were treated well on the whole and after the war they rejoined the community. Some camps in South Australia housed Germans. They too basically ran their own camps during the duration of the conflict. Japan was a different issue. Our soldiers as well as our nurses were treated horrifically. Many of our soldiers taken prisoner in New Guinea were eaten. But this is not really the issue here. Your summing up with the phrase that 'seeking a moral superiority is a flawed endeavor' I think sums it up pretty well.
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Posted: 3/13/2010 8:43 PM PST
*Note that this post was a reply to the first post.
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Posted: 3/13/2010 8:42 PM PST
Well there's quite a bit inaccurate about this... For one thing you have skewed your history pretty badly: during WWII the US had internment camps for virtually all West Coast Japanese, which were very similar to concentration camps in living conditions. Before WWII the US had a whole history of genocide and destroyed civil liberties pretty often, not to mention that Japanese were at the time considered inhuman. Dehumanization makes a group easier to target and makes things like torture acceptable. The view that the US was a wonderful champion of prisoner's rights is outright flawed, in fact American soldiers often killed Japanese who attempted to surrender and conditions in prison camps deteriorated as soon as they lost strategic value. And of course in the European theater there were several incidents with both German and Italians in the prison camps, but there's also countless unreported incidents. Though Japan did have extremely harsh conditions for prisoners of war, the US and Germany's POW camps for each other were actually very similar. Germany was still seeking US approval so that they could have time to fend off Russians. WWII and the current War on Terror are completely different, in fact about the only thing they have in common is that the US is involved. The reason we didn't encounter large partisan resistance from Germany was that virtually all their adult males were dead or incapacitated by war's end, and had we invaded Japan they would have involved civilians in suicidal warfare; only the atomic bomb convinced the Japanese to back down. Secondly, you assume that it doesn't provide valuable information—in pretty much any case that torture has been used in a military conflict for intelligence purposes it has been at least mildly useful. Prussians throughout the 18th century, as well as Austria and pretty much all powers involved with them, used torture pretty frequently and ended up with some of the most powerful military intelligences in the European continent. Japan often used torture to gain information about Allied movements, and in 1944 even though the Japanese higher-ups knew that they had lost the war they continued to fight and instructed the civilians that they were to fight to the death. Today torture, though it is vastly less punishing than in the past, must provide some useful results, but most likely it wouldn't be available to the general public. It certainly wasn't for the Prussian commoners or Japanese civilians. I would counter that in comparison to the many other things we do that would be considered "evil" by your standard torturing potential threats for information is mild at worst. America is just another country, we've certainly done a lot of good things, but just like every nation in history we've also done a lot of bad, so seeking a "moral superiority" is a flawed endeavor.
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Posted: 3/10/2010 9:15 PM PST
I take it you are very young deifan16. Your take on history is indeed sad. For a start America has been world 'policeman' only since WW2. It was almost impossible to draw her into WW2 also until Pearl Harbor. It has been since WW2 that too much has been asked of her. Far too much. After WW2 the fight for ideology took place. Was the 'new' world going to embrace capitalism or communism. The fight for peoples minds got out of hand completely. Don't be misled by the argument that communism was evil. The ideology of communism wasn't evil any more than the ideology of capitalism. But we have seen leaders of both ideology's act in evil ways especially people like Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini , Mugabe, Idi Amin, and others. Capitalism has suited our type of countries quite well but it is not so well suited to other countries still yet to pass through their own industrial revolution. This we failed to understand properly. An eye for an eye might suit some Arabic lawmakers but surely we are above that. If we aren't then it has all been for nothing. Torture is nothing to aspire to. We went past all that during the middle ages when people were burnt at the stake and quartered, gutted whilst alive and tied to a table in view of a roaring crowd and worse. The Geneva Conference makes it illegal to torture prisoners today and that should be enforced by all countries. Our soldiers should not be sent to war in fear of being tortured if captured and neither should the soldiers of countries we may be in conflict with. Soldiers after all are only the ordinary men and women of any country and when hostilities cease we all shake hands and are friends again. Countries are only rebuilt after a war so that trade can recommence with them. Trade is what makes us all richer. It is not done for any benevolent reason.
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Posted: 3/10/2010 7:32 PM PST
They torture our soldiers when given the chance so I feel like eye for an eye.
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Posted: 3/10/2010 7:27 PM PST
Have any of you thought that we have been "policing" the world since before WWI? We are the most generous country in the world, we are willing to help any country until they f*** us over and then we turn our backs on them as is our right to do. Countries have determined the best way to get rebuilt is to declare war on the US, we bomb the country and then rebuild it better than it ever was, it is a great system. If you don't stand behind the troops or support them, feel free to stand in front of them.
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Posted: 2/22/2010 4:39 PM PST
Yes, I apologise for placing my head in the sand but its easier that way to make out it's not happening. Before we can even start thinking about world peace we must address the present. The people of Afghanistan must be protected. If nothing else the innocent people of Afghanistan must be protected now, not tomorrow, or next week or next year, it must happen immediately. Another civilian death is not excusable. Surely we are above further killing that but I'm afraid we are not. We have been talking about torture of prisoners but aren't the civilians of Afghanistan being tortured daily. We hear about the civilian deaths but what about the permanently injured, the family members lost or the care of the injured being imposed on other family members in a country with no proper ongoing medical care or welfare to assist. I apologize again for ignoring the real Afghan situation simply because its easier to do so. Surely the people have been punished enough now for having been picked out to send a warning to the world that to attack a western country in a manner of terrorism means retaliation with terrorism beyond your wildest dreams. The UN should instigate peace talks immediately and Afghanistan should be fully compensated for the wrong that has been done to her. If it is the will of the people to live in a country ruled by various war lords, so be it. To make them 'one' against their will is to make and prop up the mightiest of the war lords who will forever be challenged from the wings anyway. Taliban included. We must one day walk away. But after how much damage and death. And for what gain.
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Posted: 2/22/2010 12:26 AM PST
They gave their president the Nobel Peace Prize? Whatever.
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Posted: 2/22/2010 12:07 AM PST
Genocide now is it? Enough! NATO Airstrike Is Said to Have Killed 21 Afghan Civilians Published: February 22, 2010 KABUL, Afghanistan — A NATO airstrike on Sunday against what the coalition believed to be a group of insurgents ended up killing at least 21 civilians, including women and children, in Uruzgan Province, Afghan officials said on Monday.
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Posted: 2/21/2010 1:34 AM PST
I hope you are wrong JDLee but I do see the future with a lot more hope than yourself. For starters thousands of students from India, China, Malaysia etc are now studying many of their university subjects here in Australia and I suppose they are also studying in America and Europe as well. These are the future leaders of those countries. And I have a real faith in todays teenagers generally. I have a lot to do with them and they are well educated wonderful caring young people on the whole. Much better than my own bigoted generation of pre-baby boomers. And I don't just see what I want to see as I am a retired policeman who has witnessed the worst in human nature at close hand over many years. One of the reasons why Australian and Indonesian relations are much improved on years gone by is that we had exchanges in top brass military personnel in the years following WW2. I like what Tkain has written but I hope the comment on China is misplaced as like it or not we are all part of that big bubble especially us here in Oz who rely on China to buy the biggest part of our raw materials. We avoided the Global Economic Crisis because of this relationship. In previous years we would have gone down the gurgler with the rest of the western world. Lets all help to promote a better more caring world and work towards Tkains vision becoming real.
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Posted: 2/20/2010 7:46 PM PST
I doubt if we'll ever have world peace. Even the Pax Romana wasn't two centuries of peace but two centuries of brutal occupation. You genuinely have to learn to care and respect the beliefs and needs of others and of other nations. Neither the gun, the sword, nor the pen will solve that. Peace begins two people at a time, when they agree to stop arguing and try to work together, to get along together, for their greater good.
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Posted: 2/20/2010 7:25 PM PST

Tkain
Allow me to drop in my two cents... Torture is ultimately self defeating, and well proven at that. As for the other problems mentioned in this thread, far to many people are trying to fix todays problems with solutions that failed in the past. We need to think a bit more before we act. Peace in the world will not come by way of the gun, but by the pen. Education will slowly erode and destroy many of the differences that currently divide people around the world. Borders and the question of who owns what land will become moot in the coming future. As governments begin to evolve and adopt similar styles of operating and similar goals there will be little need to recognize the lines on a map for purposes other then to delineate historical customs and cultures. There will never be a 'world' government. What will happen is that the UN, or something like it, will evolve to manage how governments interact. By 'manage' I do not mean they will have control but will instead act as a database of facts and independent mediators to help trade transactions take place fairly. When it comes to China, they are currently pumping up a massive bubble that will pop and bring them crashing down. They are pushing forward without taking the time to build up the proper foundation that will help them sustain themselves in the future. They are attempting to purchase innovation rather then discover it on their own.
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Posted: 2/20/2010 4:19 PM PST
Yeah. So lets put it all back where it was and start again... No that won't work because none of us will be able to agree to what to put back and what not to... like Tibet and Taiwan? Let alone Uganda and the Congo. No the damage is done and somehow we must live with it... but what we must do is to learn from history and not repeat those mistakes of the past. No more Israels because we feel obligated and if that be the case again we ought to relocate such people into our own countries. I for one would have welcomed a state of Israel being set up in northern Australia as was once proposed. Africa, one must throw ones arms up in the air and gnash teeth whilst praying. The middle east - simply let people live as they choose and try our best to seek to trade our way to an ultimate solution. Communism and capitalism, don't get too fussed as it is simply an evolutionary period the world must pass through to work out what serves it best. I think it will end up a mix of both such as China is demonstrating and I do apologise for continually harking back to China but I honestly think that there is something wonderful happening there. And we are all going to benefit. As for torture... it must be outlawed in all countries and while waiting for this to happen we must set a good example and not torture our prisoners be they civil or military, we must rise above such degrading practices and this is not just the US but all of us...we have all been guilty, both sides of all arguments, politically, ideologically and religious. So we should stop the blame game and grow up. Perhaps a little less nationalistic pride but become more accommodating of differing cultures might be a start. Whew... hows that!!!!!!!
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Posted: 2/19/2010 6:27 PM PST
Heh … yeah somewhere I thought it might be complex … Oh I agree about disarming … but at least the MAD doctrine applies to the countries you mentioned … It's funny, the colonialism of a few centuries ago is the root cause of most modern problems … and the gall of the WW2 victors chopping up the rest of the world …
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Posted: 2/19/2010 3:39 PM PST
Or much more simple than some would like us to think. As far as traditional and historical ownership goes, you do have a valid point... but wasn't it really the North American Indians who possessed North America originally. Aboriginal peoples populated Australia long before Captain Cook arrived with a British flag. etc. The battle for East Timor was portrayed as Australia wanting to give the East Timorese people the freedom of choice over whether they wanted to be freed from the Indonesians or not. Indonesia claimed the Island was theirs historically and traditionally. The people voted to go it alone despite being too small to even establish a decent workable local municipal administration. But Australia quickly renegotiated access rights to the sea borders between us and them and now we have access to one of the biggest gas reserves in the world. Makes you wonder about borders...East Timor remains one of the poorest nations in the world but the gas royalties go where? Australia of course. I would be more sympathetic with your argument regarding nuclear weapons if the USA, Britain, France, Russia and I suspect China, led the way by demolishing their arsena. As for dictatorships, I abhor despots but aren't our own 'democratic' governments really capitalist dictatorships, especially between elections. Once elected the winning party forms a government and surely that government is a dictatorship until the next election. How else could it govern. Africa in a different argument altogether. Its present problems stem from the former British, French and Portuguese colonization of the country when false boundaries were drawn up and held together with imperial power. With the collapse of imperialism they were left to govern countries that were neither traditional nor historical. Tribal differences had no common interests once the colonialists left and all hell was let loose. It is still coming to terms with falsely impose boundaries. Much the same as Israel is regarded in its relationship with its Arab neighbours. Did you mention complication before...........?
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Posted: 2/19/2010 10:12 AM PST
No we don't – at least I do not think so. Because England once owned most of No America and Australia is she entitled to have it back? Should Spain retake Mexico? Did Iraq deserve Kuwait? Yes, that insane leader has access to Nukes and is not afraid to share them. The rest of the world has been asking him to give up on their nuclear programs long enough to at least feed his people … Don't you think the world has mostly outgrown dictatorships? Behind almost every repressive African nation is the influence of either a western or eastern power looking to exploit the resources … The world is much more complex than it appears …
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Posted: 2/18/2010 9:20 PM PST
And we don't? If it wasn't for China North Korea would have been blown off the map years ago. Is their 'insane dictator' any worse than half the African dictators still ruling their impoverished populations unchallenged by the West. I'm not dismissive of Taiwan or Tibet but I can see where China's argument comes from. I have to leave out a lot of information as I am not writing a book here - but I could.
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Posted: 2/18/2010 4:43 PM PST
Too much of a nut-shell version there … You left out too much information. And Mcarthyism was much overblown … But we are talking modern day N. Korea run by an insane dictator while the people literally starve. China will not help and will not allow others to intervene because they do not want Korean refugees in their country … As for them not looking to influence outside their borders have a look at what they are up to in Africa, So America, Iran and … Tho I am not sure how you can be so dismissive of Tibet and Taiwan … because they believe it so it's okay?
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Posted: 2/18/2010 4:07 PM PST
You are getting different views on China's development in the US to what we are getting here in Australia. But first to go back to North Korea. The fight for political dominance of Korea reached its height following WW2. US General McArthur actually proposed using another atomic bomb on the northern part of the country as he had successfully done in Japan. The American administration at that time knew the world would not accept such aggression so the plan was shelved. At the time the West was convinced that the ideals of communism were becoming more and more accepted by the masses and that was a threat to the growth of world capitalism when the world was to be rebuilt after the war. We all had our own internal battles for the mind, remember Mcarthyism in the US itself and here in Oz the Menzies government even held a referendum to outlaw communism and if it was successful all communists were to be rounded up and relocated to Flinders Island, just north of Tasmania. The referendum was lost and business continued as usual. Back in Korea the political battle raged on, South Korea, which was pro-capitalism called in the Western armies to help force her will on the north and of course North Korea called on China to assist her is establishing a communist regime throughout the country. Both struck a stalemate at ,if I remember right, was the 38th or 39th parallel. The situation has remained much the same to this day except that the US has economically rewarded South Korea for her support but China did not do so with North Korea as at the time China itself was not a strong enough economic power to be able to do so. China has always remained inside her own borders unless invited by another sovereign country for help, and as soon as hostilities are over she immediately withdraws. Taiwan, Hong Kong and Tibet have always been regarded by China to be historically part of China. We in the West seem to be continually looking for a scapegoat, China will never be one. Yes she may one day dominate economically but has never shown any willingness to dominate politically outside of her own boundaries.
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Posted: 2/18/2010 7:34 AM PST
Yeah, but … China is quite aggressive in world affairs, it just goes under reported. And define assisting? It is more like exploiting – just look at North Korea. They make things cheaper by exploiting their people. It is still a totalitarian and repressive regime. Yes helping millions of their people, but they have a billion people... The US became the economic leader because the rest of the world was bombed out after WW2. We were building whilst they were rebuilding a clear and definitive advantage – that they no longer enjoy as most of the rest of the world has caught up. Can the world level out? I'd like it to, but it remains to be seen. China is building up its military and trying to increase its political muscle. It is starting to dictate terms around the world … I do not think that is for profit only … Has there ever been a powerful nation that did not seek world domination?
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Posted: 2/17/2010 3:45 PM PST
I would even go as far to say that we already have two superpowers acting in the world economy. The US and China. Although China might not be aggressive in world affairs generally as is the US, I think she damn near calls the tune economically already - and she has a long way to go. I don't think the rest of the world will have much say in China's economic domination of the future. She is quietly behind the scenes assisting small countries that the West has turned its back on for one reason or another and has succeeded in using the lowering of trade barriers that has become commonplace since the war to her advantage. China can make things cheaper than we can and while she is lifting her own standard of living for millions of her own people she is also making goods that millions of our own population can now purchase that was beyond them previously, therefore maintaining and maybe, at times, even raising our own standard of living. And while she is doing all this she is still making a massive profit. I think the US got to be world economic leader after the war to fill the vacuum left after the fall of the once mighty British Empire. Russia, or the Soviet Union, was too far behind the eight ball to start with and Japan only got up there with US support. Both Japan and the US are now faltering as their cost of mass production has got too expensive and China is stepping up to the plate. China has been wise in that she has used the old capitalist adage of continuous growth to suck in the greed of the West. If a western conglomerate wants to carve out a bigger future for itself in future years it will have to team up with China in some way to make it. I think we should forget the old notion of adversary and 'cold wars' and look to a future of economic cooperation between all nations. Our biggest companies are bigger (financially) than many countries even now. I think they will find it easy to talk to a country such as China as they talk the same financial language already. e.g big capitalist companies are no where near democratic in their own structure they are totalitarian in all senses of the word. They talk the same language!
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Posted: 2/17/2010 8:34 AM PST
I think we will see continental currencies before a switch to a world currency. With only 1 “superpower” the globe is out of balance. If China develops fully that may change but I do not see the rest of the world allowing them to dominate as the US does … the US got there by default, surely nobody voted them in :o) Russia is trying to make a comeback, if that succeeds we will have another version of the cold war … but I can not imagaine anyone liking that idea ~!~
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Posted: 2/16/2010 3:25 PM PST
I think the Euro will ultimately survive. At least until we have a new monetary system that replaces the US dollar. I can see a future where a more China supported currency takes over, possibly the whole world, at least for international trading purposes, simply because of the amount of borrowing from China by the leading trade countries including the US and our own country Australia. Currency's like the Euro, the British Pound, the Australian and NZ dollar, the Japanese Yen etc. will survive inside their own sphere of influence but their major trading outside will be done by a Chinese backed currency replacing the US dollar. Then again the Chinese may well see it advantageous to support the US dollar simply because it has world acceptance and the status quo will be maintained.
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Posted: 2/16/2010 9:16 AM PST
But what about the collapse of the Euro. That is going to be a big blow to any hope of breaking borders.
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Posted: 2/16/2010 8:37 AM PST
The multinational corporations and titans of industry are beginning to seriously ignore borders and nationalism. I believe (optimistically) that we may be heading towards a mostly border-less planet. Of course there will always be 'hot-spots' we humans being what we are … Sadly however I doubt it will be in either of our lifetimes :o) And yes, we all need each other, the rest is poster and pandering ... damn politics the second worse human invention :O)
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Posted: 2/15/2010 4:40 PM PST
Thanks Housedad. Lets push for a revamp of the UN. Let all of us start campaigning for a security council that is able to control the world powers. Maybe take away the veto powers and work on majority support. Whatever! Lets concentrate on giving people hope and protection against a world power of any ilk enforcing their will upon another country with the threat of invasion or worse still the actual carrying out an invasion into another s territory. Lets clean it up from corruption and give it teeth so that it can bite in its own right when necessary and not be forced into standing back and looking on. What I mean about China is that it needs the West so it can grow sufficiently to improve the lot of its billions of people. The West needs China to sell its raw material to and to buy back products it can not otherwise afford make itself without causing inflation to rage out of control. It is a trade relationship based on common needs. This, I think anyway, could also work between the West and the Middle Eastern countries. I think Saudi Arabia is a case in point. The Middle eastern countries need the West to sell their oil to after all, it seem to me there has been too much emphasis put on control of assets. This being the result of mistrust. Mainly brought about in the first place with the establishment of the state of Israel after the war.
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Posted: 2/15/2010 4:47 AM PST
You were doing fine until the very end :o) Unfortunately, the relations with China is becoming too political … from their end. They have begun to dictate policy. One cannot blame them for trying to flex their muscles and extend their influence but if not handled properly this relationship will also spiral out of control with small skirmishes and flare ups as we have lived with for most of the last century … I know you favor the UN, but have you really paid close attention to it? I believe in its current form, it does more harm than good. It needs to be revamped or rebuilt to become a viable arbiter. Right now it is too bloated, too bureaucratic and too corrupt to be an effective tool – and as long as the security council can veto, the major powers cannot be curtailed …
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Posted: 2/15/2010 3:21 AM PST
Yes, it has become too easy to kill, to hate, to torture. Might should not be used to bully, be it in the playground or in international politics. The concept that the lives of all people being equal is good and it would be comforting to think that one day that concept would be accepted around the world. Sure, we will have criminals and 'bad eggs' in all our differing cultures but lets hope that one day the fair minded will win out, but first I fear we will need a far different attitude toward nationalistic pride. The day of chest beating nationalism will have to go before we rid ourselves of the,'I'm better than you' attitude. America cops a lot of flack around the world because she has taken on the role of 'world policeman'. Maybe a lot of this has come about because of its need for continuous economic growth and certain products such as oil have to be secured into the future. Extremists in the Muslim religion seem to be strongest where the biggest reserves of oil are located. America's future is therefore regrettably tied to the Middle East where nobody trusts anybody anymore. It is not going to help matters to go into these countries simply to set up a dictator under the pretense of democracy only to find a decade or so later that wealth and power corrupts and the installed puppet government wants its own independence, not for the good of its country but simply for the betterment of its leaders. We have to learn to respect the sovereign rule of other countries no matter if we agree with them or not, offer a fair price for their oil and stay right out of their politics. And as I have mentioned before we must all use the United Nations as our world arbitrator. Our present trading relationship with China attests to the fact that all can benefit if we stay out of each others politics.
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Posted: 2/14/2010 11:29 PM PST
You want to know the real lesson to be learned from 9/11? People left their homes that day often without saying good bye or saying "I love you". Up to that point popular culture denied love existed. The divorce rate and abuse rate was staggering. But nobody called that morning from a plane to say "I hate you" to an answering machine or really their loved one. That's the meaning. Love not constant hate. I don't invoke it lightly. The most recent news stories from BBC and NY Times.Irish Times, etc. report and confirm civillian casualties of Afghans, Looking down from heaven I don't think that's what the victims would want. Call me whatever you want. I take pride in it. I don't care about the inevitable snide remarks. Nor did Billy Mitchell or Cindy Sheehan. Figure yourselves out. I can't do it for you. Good bye.
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Posted: 2/14/2010 11:03 AM PST
Just asking two armies not to bash another group of people. Nothing more. Nothing less. There is a difference between policies and thousands of individual people. A life is worth a life in my perspective. Massacre a village to get to one person and they are no better. I'm sorry to the families of 9/11 tragedy. It happens in Europe too. But that is no excuse to retaliate against innocents. The 9/11 hijackers were Not Afghans nor Iraqis. Bin Laden is not an Afghani. My foster brother is actually deployed there. The innocent are my brothers and sisters. Not someone "following orders". I'm not a sock puppet nor a rabble rouser. That would be the GOP convention!
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Posted: 2/14/2010 9:24 AM PST
Whoa … I did write GB there didn't I? Talk about a freudian/age-showing-slip … ~! Yes, honest opinion is always welcomed … but not the rabble-rousing of a sock puppet looking to stir controversy and bash a group of people …
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Posted: 2/14/2010 3:12 AM PST
Thanks pfMoriarity your contribution is most welcome. A forum like this is healthy when various views can be aired in an adult fashion.
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Posted: 2/13/2010 9:18 PM PST
Bin Laden I meant.
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Posted: 2/13/2010 9:18 PM PST
Quite so. Bib Laden is not an Afghani nor were the hijackers. Jordanand Saudi Arabia are Not Afghanistan. Afghanistan has the misfortune of being a smaller nation/tribal culture against the impotent rage of a bigger one and a smaller one namely "Great" Britain,"U".K. Actually almost every day has been a small 9/11 for the people of Afghanistan. How would you like that every day? Empathy my friend? The world does not revolve around any nation or people. No life is worth more than another regardless of a sense of exceptionalism. The Afghan have had their homes and villages turned into battlegrounds. The neighbors of Britain can empathise fully. My sympathy and admiration towards the Anzacs and their valour time and again. But in this regard: Go Afghanistan! Good fighting lads!
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Posted: 2/13/2010 1:04 AM PST
OK mate, you are closer to the action there and I appreciate you still being quite emotional regarding the attack. I honestly feel for all of you as I watched it unfolding on TV here in Australia as it was all happening. It is 70 years since the Japanese bombed Darwin and I still find it hard to accept. An attack on your home soil by others is like your private home being robbed, only a million times worse! As regards police action overseas, we in Australia use our police all the time in other countries rather than the military. Or sometimes both combined. Recently we have had troops and police in the Solomons, we also had troops and police in East Timor, and we had our police working with the Indonesian police in Bali. Usually after the troops pull out we leave the police there to keep order. We have also had our police working with the United Nations in Africa. I accept your take on Al Queda as that is the accepted line but I have always believed it all fell into place too easy. It just seems strange to me that all involved were Saudi's, including Bin Laden himself. At the time even before Al Queda were fingered I thought the Saudis were involved. I don't know, it's just what I believe. You are right in that the ANZUS treaty obliges Oz to stand besides the US if it ever comes under attack and vice versa. But that means sovereign attack. Thanks for the conversation, its been enlightening to talk to a New Yorker about these things.
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Posted: 2/12/2010 9:09 PM PST
Al Qaeda is fairly well defined as we had a hand in creating them (I think me may have even given them their name). They originated in Afghanistan – after the Russian invasion. As to the other post … there is a bit of a difference of attacking an outpost (Hotel, Embassy, etc.) and hitting the homeland … (I am a New Yorker so I am a tad more emotional about it). Nobody argued the Afghanistan “war” it was the Iraq invasion that most of the world was against. Did we overreact? Maybe, but hey, we are the US, over the top on most things. You can't blame GB or OZ for backing the US, they are sort of obliged to to do so. As with Canada, we are the bastard children of the Empire … Canada came with us to Afghanistan but refused to participate in Iraq, to their credit. It is most certainly not a “Police Matter” as they – the police – cannot and should not operate overseas. (Keep in mind that Korea was a police action~!) And make no mistake, the 9-11 attacks were an invasion – tho unconventional. And our “Invasion” was not an all out attack as we did not go in and level the country (either of them) which we are quite capable of doing. All involved were prosecuted? The organizers, the leaders, the money men, the backers, the countries who hosted the training camps? Remember the Taliban were asked to turn over the bad guys or allow us to come in … or else. They chose or else. Now, as for the attack on the USS Cole, that is an entirely different matter. That was an actual military attack and should have brought about severe repercussions... however in came in between presidents. Nobody was to start a war when they are leaving nor start one as soon as they walk in the door. But had something been done 9-11 probably would not have happened and we be in an entirely different world now …
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Posted: 2/12/2010 1:28 AM PST
Now there's a thread to embark upon. Who or what is Al Qaeda? What do we really know about the organisation. In fact is it actually an organisation at all , or is it a fabrication let loose by Saudi Arabia to do Saudi's dirty work for it, but we are too afraid to really face that fact. Let's get some positive and fearless thoughts on this mob, Are we chasing ghosts?
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Posted: 2/11/2010 11:55 PM PST
The trouble is, Tas, that James Bond isn't real, therefore we don't really have anyone to deal super criminal organisations such as Al Qaeda.
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Posted: 2/11/2010 6:50 PM PST
Yes, tha'ts true but it still goes to show how close to anarchy we can go when governments choose to ignore the laws of their own land, not to mention international law. I honestly believe Bush, Blair and our Prime Minister at the time Howard, lost their way after 9/11and became no better that the forces they were pursuing. We did not get the leadership one would expect from countries of our world standing, (or our perceived world standing). The United Nations, France, Germany and Russia all called for restraint but all advice was ignored in the mad rush for 'blood' or 'revenge'. Yes you are right, it is to the credit of the US that the case was brought before the High Court. Thank God we have such protection from governments that can get out of control over such important issues. And we must also be thankful that our High Courts are beyond the reach of our governments despite the fact that the judges are appointed by them. However it must be added that a lot of damage was done before the High Court decision was finally arrived at. I still tend to believe that the terrorist act committed against the US was virtually a Police matter and not a military one right from the start. I think the military must respond if another sovereign country invades or threatens to invade but it is out of its depth when confronted with the seeking out of individual offenders as 9/11 virtually was. It would have been different of course if the Taliban, or for that matter, Saddam, had have organised, planned and perpetuated the attack, but this was not so. We (Australia) had a much smaller experience with terrorists attacking our, and other countries nationals, at a night club in Bali. A bombing that was aimed particularly at westerners and our way of life. This was successfully handled by Indonesian and Australian police and all involved were eventually brought to justice and punished. The US has experienced many attacks around the world in various ways, in the past, especially her embassy's and warships. All such attacks were handled in a sober and proper manner.
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Posted: 2/11/2010 6:06 PM PST
Yeah, they call that government, I think. :) However, to the credit of the US, the case was brought before their highest court which ruled that the prisoners were protected under the Rules of the Geneva Convention … and all questionable behavior had to cease.
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Posted: 2/11/2010 3:47 PM PST
Yes, such things all countries tend to ignore when it suits them, but champion when they see a political advantage leaning their way.
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Posted: 2/11/2010 2:01 PM PST
They are called the Geneva Convention and Protocols and several other treaties ...
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Posted: 2/11/2010 1:09 PM PST
Although, I do think torture is useful I never said I agree with it. I think it utterly immoral. I believe the 'West' and the world for that matter need to come up with an agreed upon definition for torture and then a punishment, such as sanctions, to go with it.
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Posted: 2/11/2010 11:34 AM PST
Maybe. Maybe, maybe, maybe.
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Posted: 2/11/2010 1:44 AM PST
The point is that torture is wrong. I agree to that one hundred percent. The hardcore leadership of Al Qaida might never be broken, but its foot soldiers might be. You just have to let them talk to an Imam who truly believes in the Qu'ran rather than using for political gain. When the Imam points to all the parts of the Qu'ran that forbid warfare and jihad against civilians and especially against countries where Islam is allowed to be freely practiced, the lower ranks frequently change sides and provide viable and valuable intelligence. But if you want to talk about effective torture, sensory deprivation and pig skins (not footballs) work the most effectively. It's still wrong. By the way, Mouth, your take on the Viet Nam War is horse excrement.
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Posted: 2/10/2010 7:02 PM PST
Point taken Housedad. I don't wish to bash the US. My own government has been hand in glove with yours ever since World War 2 when if it wasn't for the US we would most likely be working for Japanese masters today. We are ever grateful for your governments intervention. When I do criticise I make sure I use the word 'West' as we are equally as culpable as is your country. I think the point is that we, you and us, are not 'holier than thou', and any limit to our cruelties does not excuse the fact that we allow cruelties to take place in our names, in the first place.
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Posted: 2/10/2010 5:13 PM PST
… but we must hang our heads over allegations? Seems bit bit odd. The thread shift was to point out other documented torture events not to shift blame. Or would you rather bash the US as the original poster intended? The reason it is so over the top now is because people were out to discredit Bush in particular and the US in general. Yes, Guantanamo Bay existed before 9-11 as did rendition and water-boarding a certain force has always been tolerated by the west, we only pretend to be holier than thou. But, there are limits to our cruelties …
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Posted: 2/10/2010 4:10 PM PST
It just seems strange to me how a thread named 'Torture of people detained by the US' has got around to what the Viet Cong are alleged to have committed against American troops during the Vietnam war. Are we never to face up to our own shortcomings or must we forever hark back to the the old worn out ,'they were worse than us'. We, the West, have sort of justified a certain level of torture of terrorists after what happened in New York, although I believe we have always condoned such gaining of information but it has never surfaced to such a degree before. It should also be remembered that the Viet Cong were in their own country. They would have looked on us as being the terrorists. Whatever viewpoint you take, there is no room in a civilized society for torture. The West must hang its head in shame over what is alleged to have taken place at Guantanamo.
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Posted: 2/10/2010 11:51 AM PST
I wasn't calling them ignorant, if that's what you thought. I was merely noting than McCain didn't actually do any fighting, and wasn't likly to hav ebeen privy to any vital information that could be extracted. I agree with Housedad, in that the Viet Cong camps were more of a propaganda tool. There wasn't really that much that the Viet Cong could learn. Troop deployment? Tactics? The amount of time that many of those soldiers were kept captive would have rendered any useful information well past its use-by date. Besides, American tactics were pretty predictable in Vietnam. I doubt that the speed with which the Viet Cong went to ground (often literally, digging tunnels which often passed directly under American bases) was from pre-emptive preparation for war. Americans come in helicopters and planes, dropping napalm, you go underground. No-brainer/
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Posted: 2/10/2010 10:10 AM PST
The Hanoi Hilton was less about gaining info than it was about propaganda – getting the captives to admit to war crimes … many of them did give in, but it was not held against them because they were actually tortured …
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Posted: 2/10/2010 10:00 AM PST
I was about to make the same snide comment but I held my tongue. :)
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Posted: 2/10/2010 9:28 AM PST
That is most likely due to them not knowing anything.
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Posted: 2/10/2010 1:38 AM PST
You never get accurate information from torture. And there are plenty of people suffer through torture to stand up for what they believe. Senator John McCain suffered seven years of torture in the Hanoi Hilton during the Viet Nam War. He and his fellow inmates never gave up anything.
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Posted: 2/9/2010 4:14 PM PST
I think mouth might be right. Torture may work in some instances so its not a question of validity but more a question of morals. I think we, as a secular society need to draw up some nonreligious moral code to guide ourselves through emotional times. We may be angry at terrorists but that doesn't give us the right to torture said individuals no matter how dastardly. We need a law, national or international, and then a punishment to go with it, such as sanctions or cut funding that we impose upon ourselves to keep from such things as torture and unlawful detainment.
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Posted: 2/9/2010 2:04 PM PST
Maybe. But you can never underestimate the power of fear.
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Posted: 2/7/2010 3:14 PM PST
The fact of the matter is that you get terrible information from people being tortured. They will tell you anything to stop the torture. And what good is it for them to tell you what you want to believe when it's not true? Most people torture either because they're sadistic sociopaths or for revenge. And often for both. Information from tortured people is unreliable. There are much better methods of gathering information without lowering yourself to your enemy's level.
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Posted: 2/6/2010 1:42 PM PST
To be honest, if someone was attacking my country, I would torture them for a while, then if I didn't get what I needed, I would execute them. And if I did get what I needed, I'd execute them. The people who try to put rules into a war don't fullly understand it. Rules are for games. War is not a game.
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Posted: 2/3/2010 12:34 PM PST
Interesting. Thanks for the info.
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Posted: 2/1/2010 9:30 AM PST
I was using the Ulster Cycle as an example here. The Tale of the Children of Tuireann is part of the Mythological Cycle.
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Posted: 2/1/2010 9:28 AM PST
Because that was the intention of the storytellers as they passed it on. They are our heroes, and our ledgends, just like the Jews have Samson, and David. The whole point of the Ulster cycle was to draw the fiercest warriors into the Fianna. The Ulaid were famed for their battle-prowess. Something which probably still causes violence today I guess.
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Posted: 2/1/2010 12:54 AM PST
Why?
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Posted: 1/30/2010 1:49 PM PST
Not really. He was left to die, because of his evil deeds, something which I don't particularly envy him for. I certainly would have done almost all the things he did, in the circumstances, with the possible exception of his original sin, the murder of Cian. He was the one of the fiercest warriors of the Tuatha, I admire that.
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Posted: 1/30/2010 12:32 PM PST
Have Brian envy, do you? :D
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Posted: 1/30/2010 6:44 AM PST
He was an awesome dude, was Brian. As punishment for murder he and his brotheres were sentenced to travel to the end of the world, and retrive magical objects. Naturally, this involved killing Persians, Scythian and all some dorks who lived on islands. Of course, he dies at the end of the tale, naturally, since he was a big meanie.
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Posted: 1/29/2010 7:41 PM PST
The life of Brian. Killing Scythians, posting on WEbook, and much much more...
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Posted: 1/29/2010 10:00 AM PST
Meh. My namesake slaughtered the king of the Scythians.
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Posted: 1/29/2010 12:48 AM PST
His is the ninth thread back, Mouth. HD suggested he might be Sarmatia.
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Posted: 1/28/2010 11:35 AM PST
I like Sarmatia. He was cool. I don't know Scythia, but I do know that Sarmatia has a brother who is a bit of a dick. That being said, Scythia hasn't posted a word on this thread man. That makes this a bit of a nonsequitor.
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Posted: 1/28/2010 6:41 AM PST
wow .......
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Posted: 1/28/2010 1:22 AM PST
You're so full of crap, Sarmatia, I mean Scythia. You revert to childish and vindictive behavior and are exactly like the people you hate. You reviewed my work only with the intent attacking me. I don't mind if you don't like my work. But you didn't read it to help me be a better writer but to punish me, to get revenge on me for calling you out, because you really are all talk and no action. You don't care about helping anyone in the world but only proving your own intellectual "superiority". Watch out for this guy, people, he's a cowardly little loser, who will back stab you given the chance. He left me feedback such as, "You asked for it and you got it." And, "All talk indeed." Webook should do something about you. He's too chicken to submit any writing of his own. Or to reveal anything about himself. He's full of venom, vengeance, and vituperation. He's just a troll, overcompensating for his lack originality, intelligence, and courage. The difference between you and me, Scythia, is that if you submit a work of writing I would give it an honest and objective review, explaining how you could make your work better. If you can't believe that, it is because you're incapable of seeing the good in anyone, even yourself. All that said, I forgive you, because forgiveness is not a weakness, but a strength.
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Posted: 1/27/2010 5:56 PM PST
oh god you dug it up didn't you ............ as i said graffic ..... "my name is legon for we are many" thats my seconed favourate .......
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Posted: 1/27/2010 11:22 AM PST
Wait... Like grapes? You are one of them then? That's sad. Here, have the full verse: Revelation 14:20 "And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs." I prefer this: Revelation 16:14-16 "For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon."
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Posted: 1/27/2010 10:50 AM PST
yeeeesssssssss........... now you get it cutie ......... "cry ha-vok .......... untill it isn't even funny anymore :{" and there are by far not enough builts for the HEAT thats homming in little pillow teady bear cutie red haired child thing you! >'-'< ew! "and they shall be as grapes .........."(rest is to graffic ...... basically the wine making process with people) p.s. you are really cute , i kinda wanna buy you as a pet ......... seriously .
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Posted: 1/27/2010 9:44 AM PST
All going to die. Gunshots and the roar of ovens.
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Posted: 1/27/2010 7:02 AM PST
i disagree we need more apathy and contempt for thee establishment .... the politshions need toknow that "we the people couldn't care less you gibering idiots" don't hate the players ..... hate the game ....... stop partaking , stop obeying the laws .... just ignore the system completely .... stop paying taxes ..... stop doing the s**t that they want you to do ... and start enjoying your lives ........ and if they want to arrest everyone .... then we will have a REAL reason for going to war . against the people who want to control everything ..... its like this ....... rolling hills or rivers of blood ...... otherwise you just end up rotting away in a cage ......... the founding fathers of america new and tried to communicate this to the people ..... but they didn't realise how zealous one hast to be to mentain a sence of freedom ..... one must be eternal ........ like the wolverine ........ the bear has to crush your sckull to take you food .... fight ... and keep on fighting . don't let them take an inch ........ because there real aim i alway and was always through out history to take a mile ...... and if they can't take it in feet , they'll take it in inches ... do you wanna live as a slave . or die a free man . and if "we the people" do not fight while we can , soon they'll take that from us ...... and "we the people" will not even have a choice ... the whole point of this post victorian error was suppost to be the fact that the western world was suppost to be allowed individual autonimy , people were suppost to have "rights" , ill name ONE single right that would change the world as you humans know it ..... "the right not to be under any power of authority" and with that , youcould cut out the beurocratic bull crap and finnally live in a free chaotic annarchy ... an have rolling green feilds with rivers of blood running through them :} ......... (yeeesss) and aleast then your children will actually die for something worth dying for ........ true freedom! I SEE MY ENEMY!!! AND HIS NAME IS POWER!!!!! AHHHH!!!!
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Posted: 1/26/2010 6:30 PM PST
They said basically the same thing about Erich Remarque and his book "All Quiet on the Western Front" At least the poor Cindy Sheehan cares as opposed to complacent apathy that allows tyranny to flourish. Apologism is counter-productive. She was trying to stop a mindless and heartless war. Trying to spare others the same pain is not wrong at all. I commend her for it.
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Posted: 1/26/2010 2:51 PM PST
nothing lee ABSOULTY NOTHING!!!???? becuse we live in utopia :D
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Posted: 1/26/2010 2:25 PM PST
Ah, it won't matter when the Irish come parachuting in to occupy the world. The rumble of tanks and the scream of missiles will drown out the weeping of the_master's brood, all sorry for themselves an no-one else.
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Posted: 1/26/2010 1:44 PM PST
What is wrong with the world?
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Posted: 1/26/2010 1:30 PM PST
lee its all so soo stupid , its become one big joke , american pariotizum everything ........ ofcourse people can't hack it when the realize it all , of course the become bittr and twisted ....... you would too if you knew the things that i know ...... hell even im twisted and im not even human? :) its all so F**ked up that not only do people not know what to do with this world anymore .... but they are litteraly as individuals powerless against it . her son died like a hero , with pride and dignity for nothing but a LIE! a total and complete joke ..... cheeck out HAARP ..... or as i like to say "thee earthquakemachine" its all a total joke that people are to stupid to get untill it bights them ...... then they crack when they realise how ridiculous it all is ........ you know i love a mad scientist who has sane reasons for the insanity of there science .... then the worst you get is a bond villian , but i hate when a mad scientists work has been stollen by people who are as mad as the science it self resulting in the f'ed up s**t in this world today ..... he was supposed to be stopping all that stuff happening instead his side does more of that messed up stuff than thee enemy??? i think all soilders should make thee ultimate sacrifice and kill each other in a frenzy of wanton machine gun lust , to finally allow people to stop and think about WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS WORLD AHHHHH!!!!!!!!
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Posted: 1/26/2010 12:15 PM PST
Cindy Sheehan suffers from guilt and hatred. She wants to punish the people she blames for her son choosing to join the military and then go off to war, where he died. She supported his choice, though she denys it now. She wants revenge because she cannot face the fact that it was his choice and he was doing what he believed in. Ms. Sheehan once stated that we are not responsible for stopping evil elsewhere. She's not antiwar because she believes in it but because she wants to punish the people who let her son die. No one is responsible for "letting" her son die. Deep down inside she fears she's responsible for his death and so, unable to face such a thought, she's buried that guilt with hatred for George Bush and the American military. It's not for what they've done in this world that she wants them to go to prison for, it's for the death of her son that she wants them to go to prison for. She tarnished and dimished her son's memory, his beliefs, his service, and his death. He believed in what he was doing and whatever sacrifice it required of him. But his sacrifice was too much for her. So, instead of dealing with her grief, she's turned it into hatred and a desire to punish. She's become one of the people her son fought against.
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Posted: 1/26/2010 11:04 AM PST
you know nothing human -_- ......... besides that , if i had enemy soilders for prisoners i would torcher them ....... not because i need to know anything . they have a right to there plans and all , its war after all , id torcher them because it . is . fun :} ..... but thats not at all why the u.s. torchers people , the u.s. foren policy is part of an infintencimaly complex joke of what the founding fathers stood for ....... look at JFK's hammer in his own coffin speach ..... its as dark as i is twisted ....... and onistly im so discusted by the whole thing that all i can do is laugth at thee evil ..... because thats what this war on terror is .... it is evil ........ killing kidds for mhoney ....... god its all a joke .... free world my arse ....... ofcourse they torcher people , how could they not??? and not even barret 50 call o'BAM!ma can stop it ........ "no he can't ...... no he can't" what we need is to drag these bastards out into the streets and throw them to the muslims ........ living under sharia law , i don't even want to think about what they'll do to them :} possibly some form of torcher?
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Posted: 1/25/2010 4:30 PM PST
"We can't let somebody rise to the top who will pardon these war criminals. Because they need to go to prison for what they've done in this world. We can't have a pardon. They need to pay for what they've done". -Cindy Sheehan
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Posted: 1/25/2010 12:12 PM PST
"Torture" I'm sure I meant.
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Posted: 1/25/2010 11:27 AM PST
Torture of captured combatants is wrong and counterproductive. During a rare victory for US and allies the world war 2 generation's army were known for treating captives very well. The war was won in a fraction of the time. This is a contributing factor to a prolonged war of attrition. It acts as a rallying point for resistance and recruitment. If it is truly meant to be a moral contest hence: "the axis of evil" and '"them evil doers" then it should be just that. "The lesser of two evils is still an evil." What terrorists and partisans did is wrong but punitive measures forfeit a moral stance. And if the Imperial Japanese of Nanking infamy and Nazi German soldiers are treated comparably well how can they do any less partisans or guerilla fighters. Same behaviour with or without uniform.
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