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WEbook Forums > The Water Cooler > Politics and Current Events > 1776-1798 Ireland and the Revolutions
Discuss, examine, and rant and rave about the news of the day.
Posted: 12/28/2010 10:05 AM PST
Baka.
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Posted: 12/25/2010 4:25 AM PST
Hah, same to you. Christmas is nice and all, but... ta se iontach fuar!
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Posted: 12/25/2010 1:48 AM PST
Me? Nollaig Shona Dhuit
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Posted: 12/23/2010 11:06 AM PST
If you don't even make it clear what your talking about... what's the point of saying anything?
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Posted: 12/22/2010 1:55 AM PST
Irrelevant and untrue.
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Posted: 11/23/2010 12:20 AM PST
Besides the benefits of "the Wild Geese". Ádh mór ort. Marthanóirí tríd go léir.
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Posted: 11/22/2010 3:07 PM PST
But neither really cared for Ireland, for example Spain most probably wished to make Ireland into a base with which to strike at Britain, and Germany only wished to make things a difficult as possible for Britain during the Great War. But they owed no debt to Ireland either. Yet we see America acting like the Spanish and Germans once did, when in reality they owe Ireland much of what they have.
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Posted: 11/15/2010 2:44 PM PST
“I wished to procure for my country the guarantee which Washington procured for America. To procure an aid, which, by its example, would be as important as its valor, disciplined. gallant, pregnant with science and experience; which would perceive the good and polish the rough points of our character. They would come to us as strangers and leave us as friends, after sharing in our perils and elevating our destiny. These were my objects--not to receive new taskmasters hilt to expel old tyrants: these were my views. and these only became Irishmen.” -Robert Emmet And yes you are right French intervention during 98 did not help anymore than the Spanish intervention in Kinsale, nor it's predecessors in the Normano Irish Silken Thomas revolt nor Strongbow's intervention on behalf of a faction. Supplying arms as the Spanish did for the O'Neil and the Germans to another era tended to lead to some successes.
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Posted: 11/14/2010 10:18 AM PST
Your mother enjoys a good over-ride.
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Posted: 11/10/2010 4:30 PM PST
Brain information over-ride!!!!!!!
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Posted: 11/10/2010 2:51 PM PST
In fact, to push the boundaries of riducule to ever higher peaks, that works out as roughly 148405 times the current population of the world.
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Posted: 11/10/2010 2:47 PM PST
In fact, just to ridicule that thinking even further, lets expand, shall we? The now 80 million children have 20 million children per million, adding up to 1600 million people. The population of Ireland is now one point six billion. Assuming, according to your assumption, that the population is multiplied by twenty every time, and the present one is roughly six generations on from the last generation we looked at, the current population of Ireland should be: 102,400,000,000,000 people. That's 1.024 quadrillion people.
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Posted: 11/10/2010 2:37 PM PST
One million died, one million left. Before the famine the population was roughly 6 million. That means that 4 million remained in Ireland, and alive. By your Maths, those four million should have had 80 million children. Yes, logical thinking in action.
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Posted: 11/10/2010 6:50 AM PST
Half-human Half-horses Yaya!
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Posted: 11/9/2010 6:31 PM PST
What would Ireland do with the twenty million people those one million people would've given birth to?
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Posted: 11/3/2010 7:53 AM PST
Not really. In all honesty, non-isolationism has never been of much good to the Irish. The potato came from non-isolationism, and with that the Famine, for example. Proof of how isolationism could have saved a million lives.
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Posted: 11/2/2010 4:13 PM PST
mmm idk. speechless/...dont u hate it when u become all staunchy and isolated? lol
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Posted: 11/2/2010 3:38 PM PST
As illegal as that sounds, it's only sensible that huge cargos of arms would be secret, even legal ones, in case they fell into the wrong hands. Of course he could also be arming the Taliban or something. Oh, wait, the CIA already did that. My mistake. You're right, I don't care. The Middle East is nowhere near Ireland. I'm a staunch isolationist.
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Posted: 11/2/2010 11:22 AM PST
I'm talking to a guy from israeli. He's my pen-pal. You'd be surprise as to how many people don't actually care to much of whats going on.we both agreed the whole entire situation is dumb. Arms market? My uncle sells guns to people all over the world. He has to send secret cargos everywhere or import them. I didn't know that was be...
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Posted: 11/2/2010 9:03 AM PST
Gun Running from the continent was provided via Germany, Tuatha. The Frenchies were useless as ever on that front. During the Northern armed struggle guns came from America, Libya, all over the world. Anywhere where Anti-British sentiment existed. Loyalist paramilitaries gained weapons from Isreal and South Africa mostly. Mainly because Israel has a large arms market, and South Africa was, and still is full of gun runners.
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Posted: 11/1/2010 3:57 PM PST
well huh u know what i meant sheesh. *rollseyes and pokes u*
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Posted: 11/1/2010 3:36 PM PST
"Ermmm... Yeah" is two words.
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Posted: 11/1/2010 3:13 PM PST
YUP SINGLE WORDEDLY!!!
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Posted: 11/1/2010 3:07 PM PST
Fairly murdered this thread, didn't you.
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Posted: 10/30/2010 5:13 PM PDT
ermmm Yeah.
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Posted: 10/30/2010 4:52 PM PDT
Oh, you're right JD, Venus is Roman, Athena is Greek. Always get those two confused.
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Posted: 10/30/2010 4:51 PM PDT
Quetzacoatl, the feathered snake was the Aztec's God, whose human form was white with blue eyes. Although Gods tend to be alien in form, and a whiteskin was probably a ridiculously bizarre thing to the Aztecs. Until they met Cortez, of course. But the Mayans went 'pop' before that. They didn't have Quetzacoatl, they had different gods, just like the Olmecs before them. When Cortez arrived, the Mayans had deserted their cities and went back to an agricultural society. No-one really knows why.
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Posted: 10/28/2010 4:49 PM PDT
lol And The mayans were dark but their leader was pale with blue eyes...duh. *rollseyes* *giggles* (im disappointed in u JD)
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Posted: 10/28/2010 4:27 PM PDT
Sammie, the Mayans couldn't be crackers. They weren't white. (By the way, Dorchie, Venus was the Roman Goddess of Love. I'm disappointed in you.)
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Posted: 10/28/2010 12:59 PM PDT
Yes, the Mayans sacrificed virgins to the Greek God of Love for good crops. That was utterly laden with sarcasm, by the by. The Mayans went to caves, which they believed to be portals to the underworld, and sacrificed virgins to the water god, to bring rain in times of drought. You can still go and see calcified skeletons of sacrificial virgins in some caves.
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Posted: 10/28/2010 11:19 AM PDT
Haha. I believe Dorchie was -SHUT THE FRONT DOOR. They murder them for good crops and stuff like that right? To venus? Their leader king person was a cracker! salty one at that. Dangggg.
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Posted: 10/27/2010 11:40 AM PDT
The Mayans also said "Oh no, not enough rain, lets go take a virgin into a cave and murder her". Cracker guys.
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Posted: 10/27/2010 11:22 AM PDT
I guess. Like the mayans said "All things will come agian, at an exact time and an exact moment. All things repeat." Well that's what they said in simple terms. Oh poopie. Are Americans that bad?
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Posted: 10/27/2010 10:56 AM PDT
Or drop our waste from our planes on you. ;P
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Posted: 10/26/2010 12:37 PM PDT
We've been 'stampeded before'. Several times. And every time, time shows that we are indestructable. We don't need your 'wing'. Frankly, you'd only try to rescue us, and blow us up with a hand grenade, or something...
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Posted: 10/26/2010 11:27 AM PDT
Nicely said dorchie. I spose when you gotta get them bank rolls..well you go and get'em lol. That reminds me of all the times I've covered for my older sister Kat who owes me the hugest pension. haha. But I gueesss you're right. I can't help the little clip in my head of irish people with american people minning in the gold rush. lol It's kinda of bias that I only picture irish people with red hair but I knowwww they have mostly black hair. lmao. but imao I would rather you guys come under our (US) wing of protecton then any other country that would ultimately stampede over you guys like a mob of girls after justin beiber.
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Posted: 10/25/2010 3:45 PM PDT
Set aside our dignity? That's called an Irish Friday night. We've been crapped on by the world before. Besides, it's merely collecting on a past loan. There's no shame in claiming what's due, is there? It's not begging. It's breaking thumbs. The sins of your fathers have passed to their sons. And have become our trust fund.
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Posted: 10/25/2010 3:43 PM PDT
Irishmen gave their lives for America in the War of Independance. In the Civil War. In your factories, mines and industrial cities. They policed your streets, put out your fires, did the jobs that you didn't want to do, just like the Hispanics do now. Or rather ironically, like the Poles do for us now. In the (roughly paraphrased) words of JFK, no nation has contributed more to America. Not that any of this was by choice. Indeed, the life of exile was considered worse than death.
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Posted: 10/25/2010 2:32 PM PDT
Considering how Irish immigrants and refugees had made the Union's preservation possible through their disproportiante sacrifice and often exploitation I think the debt has been paid long in advance. Also the exploitation of coal miners and transcontinental labourers certainly beggars any rival ammount in quantative funds. Another thing try not to use ethnic remarks if you are not ready to use racial ones. If you don't know what I'm talking about look up the Molly Maguires among the coal labourers,Irish Indentured "servants" The Duffy's Cut massacre site, the Irish Brigade under Meagher (especially the casualties at Antietam). and the San Patricio Rebellion.
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Posted: 10/25/2010 11:38 AM PDT
OH so the irish people will have to put aside their dignity and seek help from a country full of people who in ways share blood lines who they hate?! Gah. I don't mind. You gotta love them lucky charms. But what does america finicially aiding NI do for them..Do for us??
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Posted: 10/23/2010 12:11 PM PDT
Indeed. Regardless, eventually, I believe Ireland will be united. Few realise it, but Northern Ireland is a drain, that sucks up money. When the nationalist voting population overcomes the Unionist (and it will, considering that in 1920 we made up around 30% of the population, and now it's closer to 45%) over the next 20-40 years, we will vote to join the Republic. And when that happens, we will need money. Lots of it. Consider that Britain pumps money into NI constantly, to maintain a flagging economy. With the Celtic Tiger well and truly dead, a tax-paying population of 6 million will not be able to cope with what somewhere near 69 million British taxpayers pay now. So we need funding. The Irish economy will need American help to sustain NI, without raising taxes by 90%. Which brings us back to jolly old John Hancock and the rest.
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Posted: 10/22/2010 5:10 PM PDT
Oh sorry. Didn't mean to be a troll. :) haha. but that's really cool to learn. Well back to your topic...
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Posted: 10/22/2010 1:37 PM PDT
That's Elizabeth the first. I was talking about the current Queen. And in fact, she is a prime example of how war makes people rich (funny how that happened...). After the destruction of the Spanish armada, British naval supremacy ensued. A country which was at the whim of Europe was now in total control of the sea. The British waged naval wars over the next few centuries, hijacking merchant ships and convoys and taking their valuable New World gold back to england to spend, with a small percentage going to the tresury. Not entirely sure what any of this has to do with 1776-1798 Ireland and the Revolutions, but anyway.
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Posted: 10/21/2010 4:13 PM PDT
O.O *lighbulb* That's a cool subject. What makes you guys randomly talk about this for? I went to India once. In Nepal. And my Dad and mom went into one of the little shops for some kind of food and I was left alone. So I started to wander off. I was even dressed like them. So anyways long story short I almost got stolen. Do you follow ? like I was almost stolen and then i was so close to getting sold into sex-trafficking!!! I was so FUCKING scared I cried. I cried so much haha I'm such a wussy. But dude don't everrrr go there!!!!!! Besides that it was fun. Oh that was random haha. But I saw the movie Elizabeth. And that whole conspiracy thing. beheading people. omgeeee. why does war make people rich? wouldn't it ake it the opposite?
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Posted: 10/21/2010 3:46 PM PDT
"Lizzie" is Queen Elizabeth II of England. Her face is all over my money. We are talking about how war can make people money, and how it has made me lots of money. In fact, I eat because of war. More specifically, we are discussing how the wars in Ireland directly affected British expenditure, for the worse, for the most part. However, the rebuilding of Europe after World War I also funded American industry. It helped catapult them to the top of the world not just militarily but economically also, which has made many millions of people rich. The war in Iraq has made Dick Cheney rich. Donald Rumsfeld made a killing thorough replacing cruise missiles that he had a hand in depleting in the first place. Corruption and bad consicence.
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Posted: 10/21/2010 2:57 PM PDT
Who's Lizzie and what the hell are you guys-SHUT THE FRONT DOOR> Sammie is lost. :( ok ok really gonna go on google and search all this up. >.<
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Posted: 10/21/2010 2:42 PM PDT
Hah, unlikely. One third of NI's workforce is in the public sector. Unless you want to shut down all the hospitals, schools, jobcentres, and of course, Inland Revenue offices (haha) you'll still be pumping all those lovely pictures of Lizzie's head into my pocket for the forseeable future. Hell, even if you did sack the entire Civil Service, they'd be taking the benefits out of your pocket too. Then going down South and collecting benefits down there two, which are three times higher, making four times the allowance, which is a tidy enough sum to go on holiday every year, I reckon. So while you all suffer under 'Slasher George' (who is a dirty tax-evader, might I add, on account of Daddy's conviniently inheritance tax-free trust fund), I'll be in Barbados working on my West Indian accent.
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Posted: 10/21/2010 2:16 PM PDT
I think I'll go make sexytime with google and find out who George Osborne is.. I live in New orleans DAMN I need to start gettin smart Poor IQ
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Posted: 10/21/2010 2:00 PM PDT
George Osborne "Chancellor of the Exchequer" in that ever so U.K.
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Posted: 10/21/2010 7:52 AM PDT
I feel like I've just walked into history class. Who is "slasher george"?
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Posted: 10/21/2010 7:47 AM PDT

ZanneP
Hmm. Slasher George seems to have put a stop to most of that now - amongst other things.
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Posted: 10/21/2010 12:52 AM PDT
Your point is valid. Score!
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Posted: 10/17/2010 3:24 PM PDT
Well, the state of Northern Ireland was created out of war. And British control of Ireland stems from war as well. The British government pours something along the lines of £15,000 per year per family in to Northern Ireland. That money comes from the British taxpayer. Since we make up such a minute amount of the British population (one seventieth, I think) the cost is payed mostly by people from Sheffield, or London, or some other horrible foreign place. That goes into the civil service, and small start-up businesses, and the local economy via various routes. And that goes into my pocket to spend on lovely things. Thank you British taxpayer. Love ya.
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Posted: 10/16/2010 11:23 AM PDT
How so, Dorchadas?
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Posted: 10/16/2010 4:04 AM PDT
Loads, actually. Everything I own is indirectly provided for me because of past wars.
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Posted: 10/15/2010 9:52 PM PDT
I didn't feel like double posting the same line. ;P
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Posted: 10/15/2010 9:51 PM PDT
Has it made you any money? Has it made you any money? Has it made you any money?
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Posted: 10/15/2010 11:30 AM PDT
Nah. War makes more money.
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Posted: 10/15/2010 11:30 AM PDT
Nah. War makes more money.
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Posted: 10/14/2010 7:08 PM PDT
Tuatha, when did cite your arguments? You toss out opinions and then jump on someone when they disagree with you. Why don't you just let it be. Peace is better than war. Isn't it?
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Posted: 10/13/2010 1:37 PM PDT
You know, there's something inherantly disturbing about 'somebody's got to use it'. Why?
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Posted: 10/12/2010 11:03 PM PDT
A sucker then. Try a renewable resource. Thomas Jefferson was a Francophile and your bill of rights and Declaration were inspired by French philosophers of the Enlightenment. What did the Manifest Destiny teach natives positively? Anyway figure this out yourself. Cite sources and don't contradict your own affirmative arguments.
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Posted: 10/12/2010 1:32 PM PDT
Hey, somebody's got to use it. Why not the US? Tuatha, Frenchophiles tend to be lost in their own arrogance. After all, it was the French who taught the native peoples of North America how to scalp their victims.
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Posted: 10/12/2010 10:03 AM PDT
The French probably only wanted to be seen to be supporting revolutionary causes, while they quietly reinstated the nobility. Kinda like how America still likes to be seen to be world police while they suck the planet dry of oil.
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Posted: 10/12/2010 12:37 AM PDT
As for that the French saved theirs and their knecks from the noose. Balbh amháin
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Posted: 10/12/2010 12:34 AM PDT
No. That would be you. "Stomped on by big brother?" The states pay considerably more than a stamp and tea tax now to cover war costs. Still waiting for a legitimate source for your rhetoric to be cited.
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Posted: 10/11/2010 5:44 PM PDT
Better than your face in the middle of your anus, Dorchadas.
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Posted: 10/5/2010 10:04 AM PDT
If he's Tuatha, maybe I'm Fir Bolg. JDL can be the Formorii. I always reckoned he had a face in the middle of his chest.
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Posted: 10/5/2010 1:34 AM PDT
It wasn't nationlism. It was growing tired of being stomped on by your bigger brother. And you still should have put Lafayette on your short list.
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Posted: 10/5/2010 1:12 AM PDT
"Here is a short list of European commanders". And by the way most of the colonials in the 13 thought of themselves as British. Nationalism is only effective if it's tempered with some global sense of place and realism.
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Posted: 10/5/2010 1:06 AM PDT
I never said we didn't help. And you forgot Lafayette.
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Posted: 10/5/2010 1:05 AM PDT
By the way Germany declared war on the states in the second world war and not vice versa. Here is a short list of European commanders that helped the colonies, self-made as some would like to believe themselves: Brigadier General Thaddeus Kosciuszko Casimir Pulaski Comte de Grasse Comte d'Estaing Bernardo de Galvez Wilhelm von Steuben Comte de Rochambeau Chevalier du Portail You're welcome.
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Posted: 10/5/2010 12:59 AM PDT
What's your source for all this? The British lost on purpose? Oh please. So what was Monmouth Courthouse about? Why even march on Yorktown? This is wishful revisionism at it's worst.
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Posted: 10/5/2010 12:51 AM PDT
Actually, Tuatha, the British were losing on purpose. I can never remember if it was the Tories or Whigs who were in power at the beginning of the American Revolution, but the party out of power ordered the British generals--who were members of the disenfranchised party--not to win until their party resumed control of parliment. By the time they did resume power, it was too late. And while the Louisiana Purchase was a wonderful thing, Napoleon--not the French people--sold it to the United States. He needed the money to fight the British. And just a couple of years later, he sent one of his generals with ten thousand French troops to Haiti with the intention of invading New Orleans and retaking the Purchase from the US. The 700-man American army couldn't have defeated the French even though their lives depended upon it. Fortunately, small pox and malaria slaughtered the French army. After ten months in Haiti, fewer than 1400 French troops returned to France without firing a shot at the Americans.
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Posted: 10/4/2010 9:12 PM PDT
That prior statement is ironic regarding the Germans because really the French proved decisive in winning the revolutionary war.Britain and the loyalists would have won and you're very welcome for the Louisiana Purchase.
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Posted: 10/4/2010 9:10 PM PDT
That would be more Roger Casement's concern. Gun-running from the continent was useful although sometimes the logistics were off. But how many times does one have to look elsewhere over the seas before one can remain home.
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Posted: 10/4/2010 7:55 PM PDT
That makes a lot of sense. The French are arrogant and don't want anyone's help until the Germans come to town and then the French are your best friends.
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Posted: 10/3/2010 2:52 PM PDT
Hah. Maybe they saw a German ship and turned back.
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Posted: 10/2/2010 1:51 PM PDT
All they sent us was a guy named LaFayette. Took them seven years to send us any other help. And a decade later they wanted us to help decapitate their society. So we said we'd respond as quickly as they did with us and that pissed them off!
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Posted: 10/2/2010 4:08 AM PDT
Are you sure that's a word? But yeah. If it weren't for the absence of a French invasion force during Wolfe Tone's rebellion, Ireland could have been independant centuries earlier.
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Posted: 10/1/2010 1:01 AM PDT
France is rather undependable.
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Posted: 9/29/2010 4:07 PM PDT
You know, we might have had our independance along with America, had not France proved as useless as usual.
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Posted: 1/20/2010 1:45 PM PST
True.
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Posted: 1/20/2010 12:46 PM PST
Saxon perfidy at it's worst. Like the Flight of the Earls and the Wild Geese in magnitude. You are right of course.Many refugees were unjustly conscripted and exploited to fight for a cause not their own hence: "Those I fight I do not hate. Those I guard I do not love." An enslaved army discredits any claim to "a land of liberty".
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Posted: 1/20/2010 12:29 PM PST
Ugh. An invitation to forsake the motherland, in favour of that the fakery, that stolen land. Desertion. Fleeing from percieved hardship, ignoring the debt to pay.
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Posted: 1/20/2010 11:20 AM PST
Draw your conclusions mate. Interpret.
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Posted: 1/20/2010 12:21 AM PST
So?
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Posted: 1/19/2010 6:42 PM PST
"Excerpts from the Address of the Continental Congress To The People of Ireland. On the Eve of the American Revolution. By John Hancock We are desirous, as is natural to injured innocence, of possessing the good opinion of the virtuous and humane. We are peculiarly desirous of furnishing you with a true state of our motives and objects; the better to enable you to judge of our conduct with accuracy, and determine the merits of the controversy with impartiality and precision. You had ever been friendly to the rights of mankind; and we acknowledge, with pleasure and gratitude, that your nation has produced patriots, who have nobly distinguished themselves in the cause of humanity and America. On the other hand, we were not ignorant that the labor and manufactures of Ireland, like those of the silk-worm, were of little moment to herself; but served only to give luxury to those who neither toil nor spin. We perceived that if we continued our commerce with you, our agreement not to import from Britain would be fruitless, and were, therefore, compelled to adopt a measure, to which nothing but absolute necessity would have reconciled us. It gave us, however, some consolation to reflect, that should it occasion much distress, the fertile regions of America would afford you a safe assylum from poverty, and, in time, from oppression also; an assylum, in which many thousands of your countrymen have found hospitality, peace, and affluence, and become united to us by all the ties of consanguinity, mutual interest, and affection. Nor did the Congress stop here: Accept our most grateful acknowledgments for the friendly disposition you have always strewn towards us. We know that you are not without your grievances. We sympathize with you in your distress, and are pleased to find that the design of subjugating us, has persuaded administration to dispense to Ireland, some vagrant rays of ministerial sunshine. Even the tender mercies of government have long been cruel towards you. In the rich pastures of Ireland, many hungry parricides have fed, and grown strong to labour in its destruction. We hope the patient abiding of the meek may not always be forgotten; and God grant that the iniquitous schemes of extirpating liberty from the British empire may be soon defeated. But we should be wanting to ourselves-we should be perfidious to posterity-we should be unworthy that ancestry from which we derive our descent, should we submit, with folded arms, to military butchery and depredation, to gratify the lordly ambition, or sate the avarice of a British Ministry. In defence of our persons and properties, under actual violation, we have taken up arms; When that violence shall be removed, and hostilities cease on the part of the aggressors, they shall cease on our part also. For the atchievement of this happy event, we confide in the good offices of our fellow-subjects beyond the Atlantic. ()f their friendly disposition, we do not yet despond; aware, as they must be, that they have nothing more to expect from the same common enemy, than the humble favour of being last detoured. By order of the Congress."
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